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Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 01:26 - Jul 8 by Kerouac
How ridiculous and what a waste of time that last post was. I know much about the Ottoman empire thanks.
1 - During a debate on the Islamic Golden Age you said Europe took the idea of free trade from the Arabs...you provided no sources to back that statement up.
2 - When I posted up the wiki page, which briefly ran through the history of free trade, you stated that my own source proved that Britain/Europe took free trade from the Ottomans.
3 - That same source touched upon the Capitulations of the Ottoman Empire, I put a link up explaining what that meant. The Ottomans, who were in decline and were aware that Europe was leaving them behind, offered European traders free trade to try to stimulate their economy, The Ottomans then had free trade forced upon them by the European powers ongoing...this was a humiliation;
"According to these capitulations traders entering the Ottoman Empire were exempt from local prosecution, local taxation, local conscription, and the searching of their domicile. The capitulations were initially made during the Ottoman Empire's military dominance, to entice and encourage commercial exchange with Western merchants. However, after military dominance shifted to Europe, significant economic and political advantages were granted to the European powers by the Ottoman Empire."
What happened in Britain afterwards was a discussion on what we could learn from the episode. Britain went the free trade route but did not seek to emulate the Ottoman empire. Over the next 100 years we accelerated away from them and the Ottoman empire eventually collapsed. It was not able to modernise and keep pace precisely because it did not practice efficient capitalism, had no banks worthy of the name and no financial markets, and so could not funnel it's wealth into funding their own industrial revolution in an efficient productive manner. Their inability to create wealth at a quick enough pace ensured that they would never catch up militarily. The British got militarily stronger. This, despite governing most of the Islamic world. Which (by your own logic) should have put them in prime position to take advantage of all of those wonderful innovations you assign to The Islamic Golden Age re: free trade, banking, capitalism and science etc.
This undeniable fact kinda blows your whole argument out of the water I'm afraid, but I am sure that you will remain so very pleased with yourself.
The lesson we need to learn (of course many things are different now, for starters our financial markets are allocating capital from all over the world to companies based all over the world in many more sectors) is that free trade is fantastic from a position of strength. Capital in the UK needs to be allocated correctly and at speed in order to develop new technology and increase productivity, and we must maintain a strong military.
Have you been to the Ottoman Empires official gift shop?
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 14:39 - Jul 8 by Kerouac
Yes, I got myself a t-shirt that reads; "Hello ISLAM, Goodbye problems"
...and a bumper sticker for the car; "Hey Armenia, this Turk can still kick your lil' Christian ass!"
I asked them whether they had any merchandise celebrating the 'Capitulations' but was asked to leave.
It’s amazing the research you can do at these visitors centres. Did you know for example that the bus driver in The Simpsons is called Otto Mann? I learned that in Yemen.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 01:26 - Jul 8 by Kerouac
How ridiculous and what a waste of time that last post was. I know much about the Ottoman empire thanks.
1 - During a debate on the Islamic Golden Age you said Europe took the idea of free trade from the Arabs...you provided no sources to back that statement up.
2 - When I posted up the wiki page, which briefly ran through the history of free trade, you stated that my own source proved that Britain/Europe took free trade from the Ottomans.
3 - That same source touched upon the Capitulations of the Ottoman Empire, I put a link up explaining what that meant. The Ottomans, who were in decline and were aware that Europe was leaving them behind, offered European traders free trade to try to stimulate their economy, The Ottomans then had free trade forced upon them by the European powers ongoing...this was a humiliation;
"According to these capitulations traders entering the Ottoman Empire were exempt from local prosecution, local taxation, local conscription, and the searching of their domicile. The capitulations were initially made during the Ottoman Empire's military dominance, to entice and encourage commercial exchange with Western merchants. However, after military dominance shifted to Europe, significant economic and political advantages were granted to the European powers by the Ottoman Empire."
What happened in Britain afterwards was a discussion on what we could learn from the episode. Britain went the free trade route but did not seek to emulate the Ottoman empire. Over the next 100 years we accelerated away from them and the Ottoman empire eventually collapsed. It was not able to modernise and keep pace precisely because it did not practice efficient capitalism, had no banks worthy of the name and no financial markets, and so could not funnel it's wealth into funding their own industrial revolution in an efficient productive manner. Their inability to create wealth at a quick enough pace ensured that they would never catch up militarily. The British got militarily stronger. This, despite governing most of the Islamic world. Which (by your own logic) should have put them in prime position to take advantage of all of those wonderful innovations you assign to The Islamic Golden Age re: free trade, banking, capitalism and science etc.
This undeniable fact kinda blows your whole argument out of the water I'm afraid, but I am sure that you will remain so very pleased with yourself.
The lesson we need to learn (of course many things are different now, for starters our financial markets are allocating capital from all over the world to companies based all over the world in many more sectors) is that free trade is fantastic from a position of strength. Capital in the UK needs to be allocated correctly and at speed in order to develop new technology and increase productivity, and we must maintain a strong military.
Lol.
No you didn’t. It’s quite obvious from your posts. No idea. ‘Muslims is all the same innit’.
And you misrepresenting what I wrote to try to pretend you did is still funny.
You also extend your demonstrated ignorance by thinking ‘capitulation’ in international agreements means the same as it does in a military sense.
1
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 15:03 - Jul 8 with 1396 views
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 14:39 - Jul 8 by Kerouac
Yes, I got myself a t-shirt that reads; "Hello ISLAM, Goodbye problems"
...and a bumper sticker for the car; "Hey Armenia, this Turk can still kick your lil' Christian ass!"
I asked them whether they had any merchandise celebrating the 'Capitulations' but was asked to leave.
Did you buy one instead celebrating the capitulations that still exist in the UK?
Moron.
Run off to wiki, there’s a good boy and see if you can find an example of one that’s been very much in the news recently. To give you a clue, it involves the UK and US.
1
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 15:13 - Jul 8 with 1380 views
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 15:15 - Jul 8 by Humpty
They obviously didn't cover "Turks aren't Arabs" in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.
Nor why Robin, an English nobleman had an American accent... although great film largely due to Alan Rickman’s epic performance.
Backing up a position with Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves is up there with fansdad backing up his position on international fraud cases by watching Judge Judy.
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 01:26 - Jul 8 by Kerouac
How ridiculous and what a waste of time that last post was. I know much about the Ottoman empire thanks.
1 - During a debate on the Islamic Golden Age you said Europe took the idea of free trade from the Arabs...you provided no sources to back that statement up.
2 - When I posted up the wiki page, which briefly ran through the history of free trade, you stated that my own source proved that Britain/Europe took free trade from the Ottomans.
3 - That same source touched upon the Capitulations of the Ottoman Empire, I put a link up explaining what that meant. The Ottomans, who were in decline and were aware that Europe was leaving them behind, offered European traders free trade to try to stimulate their economy, The Ottomans then had free trade forced upon them by the European powers ongoing...this was a humiliation;
"According to these capitulations traders entering the Ottoman Empire were exempt from local prosecution, local taxation, local conscription, and the searching of their domicile. The capitulations were initially made during the Ottoman Empire's military dominance, to entice and encourage commercial exchange with Western merchants. However, after military dominance shifted to Europe, significant economic and political advantages were granted to the European powers by the Ottoman Empire."
What happened in Britain afterwards was a discussion on what we could learn from the episode. Britain went the free trade route but did not seek to emulate the Ottoman empire. Over the next 100 years we accelerated away from them and the Ottoman empire eventually collapsed. It was not able to modernise and keep pace precisely because it did not practice efficient capitalism, had no banks worthy of the name and no financial markets, and so could not funnel it's wealth into funding their own industrial revolution in an efficient productive manner. Their inability to create wealth at a quick enough pace ensured that they would never catch up militarily. The British got militarily stronger. This, despite governing most of the Islamic world. Which (by your own logic) should have put them in prime position to take advantage of all of those wonderful innovations you assign to The Islamic Golden Age re: free trade, banking, capitalism and science etc.
This undeniable fact kinda blows your whole argument out of the water I'm afraid, but I am sure that you will remain so very pleased with yourself.
The lesson we need to learn (of course many things are different now, for starters our financial markets are allocating capital from all over the world to companies based all over the world in many more sectors) is that free trade is fantastic from a position of strength. Capital in the UK needs to be allocated correctly and at speed in order to develop new technology and increase productivity, and we must maintain a strong military.
You still don't understand the difference between the Ottoman Empire and the Arabs of the Golden Age.
The Ottoman Empire didn't have free trade forced upon them. If you read your Wikipedia link you'd understand that. The Capitulations were trade deals, not concessions.
The collapse of the Ottoman Empire was a gradual decline over hundreds of years that may not have even happened if not for WW1. It's hilarious you think it was the result of not practising efficient capitalism when part of the reason for its economic decline was allowing cheap European goods to flood its domestic markets. Goods manufactured from the raw materials of slave labour.
The more evidence you try and provide, the weaker your argument becomes. It's why you're constantly shifting the debate to a new topic.
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 15:21 - Jul 8 by londonlisa2001
Nor why Robin, an English nobleman had an American accent... although great film largely due to Alan Rickman’s epic performance.
Backing up a position with Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves is up there with fansdad backing up his position on international fraud cases by watching Judge Judy.
It’s been a funny few weeks.
I'm sorry but anyone who can read can see through your lies, I have backed my argument up with solid History.
You pretend the series of YouTube videos which used a Hollywood movie to emphasise how modern Westerners have misconceptions about the Islamic Golden Age (and only reference the film in the first video) are invalid as a result of referencing a movie...because you can't argue with the facts the videos go on to discuss.
Do you want to talk about proper sources? How about the lack of archaeological evidence to support Islamic Golden Age claims? Point us to your sources.
All you can do is insult and obfuscate by making out the other poster said something that they didn't, you are full of hot air.
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 15:38 - Jul 8 by Drizzy
You still don't understand the difference between the Ottoman Empire and the Arabs of the Golden Age.
The Ottoman Empire didn't have free trade forced upon them. If you read your Wikipedia link you'd understand that. The Capitulations were trade deals, not concessions.
The collapse of the Ottoman Empire was a gradual decline over hundreds of years that may not have even happened if not for WW1. It's hilarious you think it was the result of not practising efficient capitalism when part of the reason for its economic decline was allowing cheap European goods to flood its domestic markets. Goods manufactured from the raw materials of slave labour.
The more evidence you try and provide, the weaker your argument becomes. It's why you're constantly shifting the debate to a new topic.
I have had enough of talking to brick walls. This is my last post on the subject, fill your boots tossers.
"You still don't understand the difference between the Ottoman Empire and the Arabs of the Golden Age."
The Ottoman empire was an Islamic empire and governed the Islamic lands, it did so for hundreds of years. Therefore, by your logic, they were in the best position to inherit all of this progress "created by the Islamic Golden Age" that you claim that the West took so much from...weren't they? Yet they didn't. Why? Because the achievements of the Islamic Golden Age weren't all that and the religion, Islam, stunted their ability to reform and modernise. The Islamic World could not keep pace with the West, which was the actual birthplace of most of the good ideas of the modern age. The proof is in the pudding as they say. Pretending that the good ideas that drove the West on were taken from the Islamic Golden Age is a preposterous political act. Not good history.
Anyone who doubts what I say and prefers Drizzy and Lisa's take can always just google; "what caused the decline of the ottoman empire?"
You will find so much material backing my argument up it will overload you. You need only click on 'images' and have a look at slides from lectures on the subject to see that what I am arguing is the truth.
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 15:21 - Jul 8 by londonlisa2001
Nor why Robin, an English nobleman had an American accent... although great film largely due to Alan Rickman’s epic performance.
Backing up a position with Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves is up there with fansdad backing up his position on international fraud cases by watching Judge Judy.
It’s been a funny few weeks.
I always wondered how Brian Adams and his band managed to plug in all their electrical equipment, microphones and guitars etc in 13th century Sherwood Forest.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 17:40 - Jul 8 by Highjack
I always wondered how Brian Adams and his band managed to plug in all their electrical equipment, microphones and guitars etc in 13th century Sherwood Forest.
Ye olde solare pouwer. Or it was just a video
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Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 18:34 - Jul 10 with 1184 views
Mount Rushmore (looks like it's going to kick off on 07:05 - Jul 6 by Brynmill_Jack
The Soviets used the word socialism to equate to communism but in reality they are very different things. Aneurin Bevan Founded the NHS. Do you think that’s a product of communism?
Listen to this man and learn about Socialism in the USSR.
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