| Pandemic rules in Wales 08:36 - May 29 with 10805 views | legoman |
After folks views. Mrs L and I live in Bromley. Her parents who are both in their 80s live in Killay. My mum, also mid 80s, is resident in a care home in Sketty.
We note Wales' rules differ from England and we realise we can't travel to Swansea at the moment.
Assuming Welsh rules relax soon along the same lines as England, we will soon be allowed to travel and visit our parents by going into gardens and social distancing.
Now, my sister-in-law has a flat in the marina but lives in Chester with her husband. They are Jacks and visit every weekend there is a home game. They stay in the flat.
My question is, would Mrs L and I be allowed to travel to Swansea for a few days and stay in the flat (not when it's occupied)? I guess it's a situation akin to hiring an Airbnb and I believe they are not renting at the moment.
Views?
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:51 - May 30 with 1575 views | jack_lord |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 11:59 - May 30 by londonlisa2001 |
My figures were by Local authority.
Hammersmith & Fulham may have leafy parts, but overall as I said the population density is 11,000 per square km rather than a few hundred (in Swansea).
I was surprised by the figures. Even the worst parts of Swansea are no where near as built up and grimy as some of the big estates in Fulham or around White City and Shepherds Bush.
You last point is bang on. The distancing, safety etc is completely determined by people’s individual behaviour rather than by what restrictions are or are not in place. We’re all at the mercy of the most stupid, selfish people around us. And that doesn’t change according to whether they’re allowed in one place or another place. |
I understand what you are pointing out and maybe somewhere in all of this there may be clues to how the numbers are where they are.
Just a quick point. The Uplands in Swansea has a population density of approximately 7000 per square kilometre while the Gower wll be about 30 per square km and that huge area completely skews numbers. Obviously still not as dense as Hammersmith and Fulham or Kensington and Chelsea but the gower pushes the Swansea figure down in to the late 100's per sq km.
I would like to know if areas that are producing higher numbers of positive covid cases are where more people are working in higher risk areas and if lower numbers are in areas where more people may be working from home or are furloughed or out of work.
Social distancing has worked as well as people staying indoors at the critical time in my opinion and I think that a lot of adulation should be heaped on supermarkets after that initial period for brain washing the 2 metre rule. They are not responsible for the science behind it and even though they had to, they have helped people become accustomed to distance. |  |
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 18:10 - May 30 with 1564 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:51 - May 30 by jack_lord |
I understand what you are pointing out and maybe somewhere in all of this there may be clues to how the numbers are where they are.
Just a quick point. The Uplands in Swansea has a population density of approximately 7000 per square kilometre while the Gower wll be about 30 per square km and that huge area completely skews numbers. Obviously still not as dense as Hammersmith and Fulham or Kensington and Chelsea but the gower pushes the Swansea figure down in to the late 100's per sq km.
I would like to know if areas that are producing higher numbers of positive covid cases are where more people are working in higher risk areas and if lower numbers are in areas where more people may be working from home or are furloughed or out of work.
Social distancing has worked as well as people staying indoors at the critical time in my opinion and I think that a lot of adulation should be heaped on supermarkets after that initial period for brain washing the 2 metre rule. They are not responsible for the science behind it and even though they had to, they have helped people become accustomed to distance. |
Yes, the reason I mentioned it in the first place was an attempt to say that it’s obviously not as straightforward as it seems in terms of infection rates and how it can be controlled. The Uplands is as close as there is in Swansea to H&F in terms of housing types etc. Also some parts of Hammersmith are perhaps similar to Manselton - rows of terraced houses. There are no bits of H&F which aren’t pretty crowded, albeit some are more grimy than others.
The point about job types must have an impact, although we have two very large hospitals in H&F and several more just over the boundary into RBK&C and a lot of NHS workers as a result. Also a large BAME community, who have disproportionately suffered.
Agree about social distancing. Supermarkets are fascinating to me as there haven’t been a large number of supermarket staff affected (that I’ve seen, and I’m sure that if Tesco had had 100 checkout staff die we would have known about it). Which given contact, proximity, handling of everyone’s goods all day every day, is just plain weird given everything we’ve been told about how it spreads. They have had sod all PPE as well for much of this, |  | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 18:41 - May 30 with 1548 views | exhmrc1 |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:22 - May 30 by Catullus |
If we are only testing NHS and care workers it distorts the true picture because they have PPE that was sorely missing or substandard in early April.
If we tested ever single person in Wales it would matter because then we would know exactly how many cases, new or otherwise, we had. Any who tested positive could then go through contact tracing and be made to isolate.
Things may be as good as you say but right now it's only an assumption. Dropping our guard now would be wrong. Apparently we can process over 5000 tests per day and want to increase it to 10000, so why are we only doing 500? |
This isnt just NHS and Care Workers. It includes the public as well or at least people who wanted to be tested who have symptons. There would be thousands out there without Covid or symptoms. Testing all them is pointless as nearly all will prove negative. On the latest press briefing today foe England the hospital admissions have increased in the last week or so. In the last few weeks in Wales they have gone down markedly especially in West Wales and Gwent. The Cardiff and the Vale figures and Cwm Taf figures have decreased but are not as low as Hywel Dda, Swansea Bay and Aneurin Bevan figures. There has been problems in Betsi Cadwalladr due to the spread from North West England. | | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 08:40 - May 31 with 1483 views | exiledclaseboy |
Seems that those letters telling clinically extremely vulnerable people to shield for 12 weeks had a typo in them and they actually only meant 10 weeks. Either that or they just needed something else to announce.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 09:35 - May 31 with 1443 views | 3swan |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 18:10 - May 30 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes, the reason I mentioned it in the first place was an attempt to say that it’s obviously not as straightforward as it seems in terms of infection rates and how it can be controlled. The Uplands is as close as there is in Swansea to H&F in terms of housing types etc. Also some parts of Hammersmith are perhaps similar to Manselton - rows of terraced houses. There are no bits of H&F which aren’t pretty crowded, albeit some are more grimy than others.
The point about job types must have an impact, although we have two very large hospitals in H&F and several more just over the boundary into RBK&C and a lot of NHS workers as a result. Also a large BAME community, who have disproportionately suffered.
Agree about social distancing. Supermarkets are fascinating to me as there haven’t been a large number of supermarket staff affected (that I’ve seen, and I’m sure that if Tesco had had 100 checkout staff die we would have known about it). Which given contact, proximity, handling of everyone’s goods all day every day, is just plain weird given everything we’ve been told about how it spreads. They have had sod all PPE as well for much of this, |
I'm glad you mentioned supermarkets it's something I have discussions about. I haven't heard or read about any being closed for deep cleaning or short of staff due to any positive testing etc. Does that confirm that keeping to the basic recommendations is the most important for all of us. [Post edited 31 May 2020 9:36]
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 11:10 - May 31 with 1386 views | jack_lord |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 09:35 - May 31 by 3swan |
I'm glad you mentioned supermarkets it's something I have discussions about. I haven't heard or read about any being closed for deep cleaning or short of staff due to any positive testing etc. Does that confirm that keeping to the basic recommendations is the most important for all of us. [Post edited 31 May 2020 9:36]
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I would say that the basic recommendation is clearly the important factor. I will say that the supermarkets are constantly being cleaned and that operation goes back to giving them some accolade.
I would think though that they aren't full of severely ill people exhaling/coughing/sneezing copious amounts of virus in to the environment. I expect it comes back to cleaning your hands before touching anything then and that , even if someone with the virus on their hands touched something, the virus doesn't exist long one softer surfaces.
The supermarkets have gone to a huge amount of effort to put safety screens for their staff and perhaps this has been part of the reason why the staff aren't getting affected.
I wish that there was some way of finding out where every new case contracted the virus though and we could evaluate the randomness or precision of transmission. | |
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 12:55 - May 31 with 1355 views | Catullus |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 11:10 - May 31 by jack_lord |
I would say that the basic recommendation is clearly the important factor. I will say that the supermarkets are constantly being cleaned and that operation goes back to giving them some accolade.
I would think though that they aren't full of severely ill people exhaling/coughing/sneezing copious amounts of virus in to the environment. I expect it comes back to cleaning your hands before touching anything then and that , even if someone with the virus on their hands touched something, the virus doesn't exist long one softer surfaces.
The supermarkets have gone to a huge amount of effort to put safety screens for their staff and perhaps this has been part of the reason why the staff aren't getting affected.
I wish that there was some way of finding out where every new case contracted the virus though and we could evaluate the randomness or precision of transmission. |
It's a mystery,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52840763
I've just seen that as a shielded person I am not allowed to work or shop but I am now allowed out for unlimited exercise as long as I distance and hand wash etc. It's different to England and Scotland (I think) where they are allowed out once.
I guess I'll have to see what the next letter says. | |
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 14:53 - May 31 with 1321 views | 3swan |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 11:10 - May 31 by jack_lord |
I would say that the basic recommendation is clearly the important factor. I will say that the supermarkets are constantly being cleaned and that operation goes back to giving them some accolade.
I would think though that they aren't full of severely ill people exhaling/coughing/sneezing copious amounts of virus in to the environment. I expect it comes back to cleaning your hands before touching anything then and that , even if someone with the virus on their hands touched something, the virus doesn't exist long one softer surfaces.
The supermarkets have gone to a huge amount of effort to put safety screens for their staff and perhaps this has been part of the reason why the staff aren't getting affected.
I wish that there was some way of finding out where every new case contracted the virus though and we could evaluate the randomness or precision of transmission. |
True if only there was a way? It shows that the majority of people are being sensible even if not to the letter. Does beg the question why the infection numbers are still relatively high. | | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 15:37 - May 31 with 1309 views | Jackinexile1 |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 11:10 - May 31 by jack_lord |
I would say that the basic recommendation is clearly the important factor. I will say that the supermarkets are constantly being cleaned and that operation goes back to giving them some accolade.
I would think though that they aren't full of severely ill people exhaling/coughing/sneezing copious amounts of virus in to the environment. I expect it comes back to cleaning your hands before touching anything then and that , even if someone with the virus on their hands touched something, the virus doesn't exist long one softer surfaces.
The supermarkets have gone to a huge amount of effort to put safety screens for their staff and perhaps this has been part of the reason why the staff aren't getting affected.
I wish that there was some way of finding out where every new case contracted the virus though and we could evaluate the randomness or precision of transmission. |
All speculation. |  | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:00 - May 31 with 1302 views | chad |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 11:10 - May 31 by jack_lord |
I would say that the basic recommendation is clearly the important factor. I will say that the supermarkets are constantly being cleaned and that operation goes back to giving them some accolade.
I would think though that they aren't full of severely ill people exhaling/coughing/sneezing copious amounts of virus in to the environment. I expect it comes back to cleaning your hands before touching anything then and that , even if someone with the virus on their hands touched something, the virus doesn't exist long one softer surfaces.
The supermarkets have gone to a huge amount of effort to put safety screens for their staff and perhaps this has been part of the reason why the staff aren't getting affected.
I wish that there was some way of finding out where every new case contracted the virus though and we could evaluate the randomness or precision of transmission. |
Virus can live for a considerable time on packaging
Viruses are expelled just through speaking and can land on nearby products
As Cat points out this virus is thought to be most infectious in its early stages, from the viral load in the throat. It has been shown to be infectious in the pre symptomatic phase and some who have the virus are asymptomatic. So it might be considered that the most likely to infect you could be far from ill. |  | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:37 - May 31 with 1278 views | jack_lord |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:00 - May 31 by chad |
Virus can live for a considerable time on packaging
Viruses are expelled just through speaking and can land on nearby products
As Cat points out this virus is thought to be most infectious in its early stages, from the viral load in the throat. It has been shown to be infectious in the pre symptomatic phase and some who have the virus are asymptomatic. So it might be considered that the most likely to infect you could be far from ill. |
The CDC have suggested that, in general, because of poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, there is likely very low risk of spread from food products or packaging that are shipped over a period of days or weeks at ambient, refrigerated, or frozen temperatures. The virus is suggested to be able to survive longer on hard shiny surfaces though.
I have read up on the possibility of the virus being transmitted through speaking and that is a huge concern but, at the same time, I would have expected the spread to be far more severe if it was as accurate as the science suggests. Apparently the louder you speak, the higher the risk of spreading if you are affected. | |
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:50 - May 31 with 1266 views | Whiterockin |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:37 - May 31 by jack_lord |
The CDC have suggested that, in general, because of poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, there is likely very low risk of spread from food products or packaging that are shipped over a period of days or weeks at ambient, refrigerated, or frozen temperatures. The virus is suggested to be able to survive longer on hard shiny surfaces though.
I have read up on the possibility of the virus being transmitted through speaking and that is a huge concern but, at the same time, I would have expected the spread to be far more severe if it was as accurate as the science suggests. Apparently the louder you speak, the higher the risk of spreading if you are affected. |
So a football match (Liverpool V Madrid) and the horse racing (Cheltenham), with thousands shouting in close proximity and then going home to various parts of the UK. Could well be the reason the virus is so widespread here. As others have said before, these events should have been stopped. |  | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:53 - May 31 with 1261 views | Jackinexile1 |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:50 - May 31 by Whiterockin |
So a football match (Liverpool V Madrid) and the horse racing (Cheltenham), with thousands shouting in close proximity and then going home to various parts of the UK. Could well be the reason the virus is so widespread here. As others have said before, these events should have been stopped. |
Shiny surfaces and loud speakers! Is there any science behind these claims? | | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:55 - May 31 with 1259 views | dickythorpe |
In New York there is a film they can spray on surfaces that lasts for days.
Quite what chemicals etc is in that is beyond me.....PPE may be needed in what we need to use to beat this damn virus |  | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:41 - May 31 with 1238 views | chad |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:37 - May 31 by jack_lord |
The CDC have suggested that, in general, because of poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, there is likely very low risk of spread from food products or packaging that are shipped over a period of days or weeks at ambient, refrigerated, or frozen temperatures. The virus is suggested to be able to survive longer on hard shiny surfaces though.
I have read up on the possibility of the virus being transmitted through speaking and that is a huge concern but, at the same time, I would have expected the spread to be far more severe if it was as accurate as the science suggests. Apparently the louder you speak, the higher the risk of spreading if you are affected. |
‘Another more recent study released in May by microbiologists in Beijing, China, found that Sars-CoV-2 could survive and remain infectious on smooth surfaces including plastic, stainless steel, glass, ceramics and latex gloves for up to seven days. They found they could not obtain infectious viral particles from cotton clothing after four days and that no virus could be obtained from paper surface after five days.’
So quite a considerable time.
The problem is more, products being infected once they have arrived here and are on the supermarket shelves when people can handle them, cough, sneeze, talk or breath near them and potentially deposit virus.
I have also heard say on TV that viruses survive freezing, however some of those answers on TV were pretty dodgy.
I agree about more people being infected, but we don’t know how many may have been infected in shops. Also there is a question of the amount of virus needed to infect any individual. As a saddo, I sit in my bench outside and wet wipe or decant from outer wrappers much of my shopping, wash fruit etc.
Probably get it anyway, if the on and off slight sore throat, runny nose I had for several weeks, from the end of Feb (after going to the NEC) wasn’t it. | | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:51 - May 31 with 1228 views | Catullus |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 16:55 - May 31 by dickythorpe |
In New York there is a film they can spray on surfaces that lasts for days.
Quite what chemicals etc is in that is beyond me.....PPE may be needed in what we need to use to beat this damn virus |
A film you say, is it called 'Contagion' by any chance?
It's still a case of keep 2m apart amd wash your hands a lot, wear a mask if you have one. That's what I'm going to do. Even when the 2m is down to 1m I'm staying 2m apart whenever possible and I won't be going in a shop for a while either. | |
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:53 - May 31 with 1220 views | Jackinexile1 |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:51 - May 31 by Catullus |
A film you say, is it called 'Contagion' by any chance?
It's still a case of keep 2m apart amd wash your hands a lot, wear a mask if you have one. That's what I'm going to do. Even when the 2m is down to 1m I'm staying 2m apart whenever possible and I won't be going in a shop for a while either. |
Good for you, but you can't force that on others. | | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:57 - May 31 with 1213 views | Catullus |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 14:53 - May 31 by 3swan |
True if only there was a way? It shows that the majority of people are being sensible even if not to the letter. Does beg the question why the infection numbers are still relatively high. |
Read my link, I'll go with the 'silent spreaders' those who don't feel or look ill but are infectious all the same.
They're the modern day 'Typhoid Mary's' | |
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:58 - May 31 with 1210 views | jack_lord |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:41 - May 31 by chad |
‘Another more recent study released in May by microbiologists in Beijing, China, found that Sars-CoV-2 could survive and remain infectious on smooth surfaces including plastic, stainless steel, glass, ceramics and latex gloves for up to seven days. They found they could not obtain infectious viral particles from cotton clothing after four days and that no virus could be obtained from paper surface after five days.’
So quite a considerable time.
The problem is more, products being infected once they have arrived here and are on the supermarket shelves when people can handle them, cough, sneeze, talk or breath near them and potentially deposit virus.
I have also heard say on TV that viruses survive freezing, however some of those answers on TV were pretty dodgy.
I agree about more people being infected, but we don’t know how many may have been infected in shops. Also there is a question of the amount of virus needed to infect any individual. As a saddo, I sit in my bench outside and wet wipe or decant from outer wrappers much of my shopping, wash fruit etc.
Probably get it anyway, if the on and off slight sore throat, runny nose I had for several weeks, from the end of Feb (after going to the NEC) wasn’t it. |
That corresponds roughly with my data but it doesn't actually deal clearly with food wrapping.
I am trying to get my head around a few people has spread th 38000 dead in the uk and we are still seeing a couple of thousand new infections a day but not the same response from people. We will know soon enough if it is the virus imploding. | |
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:58 - May 31 with 1210 views | Jackinexile1 |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:57 - May 31 by Catullus |
Read my link, I'll go with the 'silent spreaders' those who don't feel or look ill but are infectious all the same.
They're the modern day 'Typhoid Mary's' |
Just stay in your big garden, some of us have to work. | | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 18:45 - May 31 with 1187 views | Catullus |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 17:58 - May 31 by Jackinexile1 |
Just stay in your big garden, some of us have to work. |
I'm medically retired mate, lucky me for having long term medical problems eh.
PS, when did I suggest forcing what I was doing on anyone?
I don't know what your job is but go careful  | |
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| Pandemic rules in Wales on 18:49 - May 31 with 1184 views | Jackinexile1 |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 18:45 - May 31 by Catullus |
I'm medically retired mate, lucky me for having long term medical problems eh.
PS, when did I suggest forcing what I was doing on anyone?
I don't know what your job is but go careful |
Sorry to hear that, all the best...
Lucky for people who were already in poverty and those that have had to work throughout.
All the best. | | | |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 19:01 - May 31 with 1176 views | Catullus |
| Pandemic rules in Wales on 18:49 - May 31 by Jackinexile1 |
Sorry to hear that, all the best...
Lucky for people who were already in poverty and those that have had to work throughout.
All the best. |
I've been in poverty, nothing lucky about it. Let the anger go, it won't help.
It was working long hours for a long time that contributed to some of my health problems.
The only way I'd call yself lucky is my age, young people have it hard. My son is 11, it's not going to be so very good for him after Covid.
If your healthy count yourself lucky. | |
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