| Alabama 11:52 - May 16 with 11469 views | Drizzy |
Has voted to criminalise abortion at every stage of pregnancy, with no exception for rape and incest. Abortion is now a class A felony, meaning doctors found guilty of performing abortions could be punished with up to 99 years in prison.
In the same week, the US reportedly draws up plans to send 120,000 troops to Iran.
Just when will Christian fundamentalist extremism stop? |  |
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| Alabama on 14:57 - May 16 with 1806 views | Darran |
| Alabama on 14:04 - May 16 by sg1912 |
I completely disagree with your last sentence..
Should we murder orphans, because there’s nobody to take care of them?
.. and how is me ‘knowing a lot of women’ any less anecdotal than ‘contraception doesn’t work for 0.001% of people ‘? |
Are you all there? |  |
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| Alabama on 14:58 - May 16 with 1803 views | WarwickHunt |
| Alabama on 14:57 - May 16 by Darran |
Are you all there? |
I'm guessing 0.001%.
Brexiter. *taps nose* |  | | |
| Alabama on 15:18 - May 16 with 1782 views | sg1912 |
| Alabama on 14:57 - May 16 by Darran |
Are you all there? |
I asked a legitimate question based on Drrizys comment, do you think a child ‘doesn’t deserve to live if the parents do not want to take care of it’?
We’re talking about human beings, it’s not a pet you can put to sleep ‘because you don’t want to take care of it’. [Post edited 16 May 2019 15:21]
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| Alabama on 15:33 - May 16 with 1759 views | Drizzy |
| Alabama on 14:28 - May 16 by sg1912 |
You’re literally advocating the murder of millions children because a tiny minority of people are unable to use contraceptives..
Even with your ‘facts’, it’s still a negligible failure rate. |
Terminating a pregnancy before 24 weeks is in no way comparable to murdering a child.
You've made an arbitrary judgement of when you think a human life exists (before birth) and want to impose that on millions of women who would have to carry and then care for the child for the entirety of its life. | |
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| Alabama on 15:48 - May 16 with 1736 views | Jonathans_coat |
| Alabama on 14:28 - May 16 by sg1912 |
You’re literally advocating the murder of millions children because a tiny minority of people are unable to use contraceptives..
Even with your ‘facts’, it’s still a negligible failure rate. |
FAO sg1912.
A hypothetical question:-
You're in a fertility clinic. Why isn't important. The fire alarm goes off. You run for the exit. As you run down this hallway, you hear a child screaming from behind a door. You throw open the door and find a five-year-old child crying for help. They're in one corner of the room. In the other corner, you spot a frozen container labeled "1000 Viable Human Embryos." The smoke is rising. You start to choke. You know you can grab one or the other, but not both before you succumb to smoke inhalation and die, saving no one.
Do you A) save the child, or B) save the thousand embryos? There is no "C." "C" means you all die
May I put it to you, that if your answer is anything but A, you are a psychopath or a lier. [Post edited 16 May 2019 15:52]
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| Alabama on 16:03 - May 16 with 1721 views | Darran |
| Alabama on 15:48 - May 16 by Jonathans_coat |
FAO sg1912.
A hypothetical question:-
You're in a fertility clinic. Why isn't important. The fire alarm goes off. You run for the exit. As you run down this hallway, you hear a child screaming from behind a door. You throw open the door and find a five-year-old child crying for help. They're in one corner of the room. In the other corner, you spot a frozen container labeled "1000 Viable Human Embryos." The smoke is rising. You start to choke. You know you can grab one or the other, but not both before you succumb to smoke inhalation and die, saving no one.
Do you A) save the child, or B) save the thousand embryos? There is no "C." "C" means you all die
May I put it to you, that if your answer is anything but A, you are a psychopath or a lier. [Post edited 16 May 2019 15:52]
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I used to go out with a girl that was a lier. Always on her back she was. | |
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| Alabama on 16:06 - May 16 with 1719 views | Lohengrin |
| Alabama on 15:33 - May 16 by Drizzy |
Terminating a pregnancy before 24 weeks is in no way comparable to murdering a child.
You've made an arbitrary judgement of when you think a human life exists (before birth) and want to impose that on millions of women who would have to carry and then care for the child for the entirety of its life. |
This is a child born at 24 weeks. Subject, no doubt, to any number of difficulties having been delivered so prematurely but unquestionably a sentient human being.
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Alabama on 16:24 - May 16 with 1699 views | Jonathans_coat |
| Alabama on 16:03 - May 16 by Darran |
I used to go out with a girl that was a lier. Always on her back she was. |
Lol.
Did she also play the lyre? | | | |
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| Alabama on 16:26 - May 16 with 1694 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Alabama on 12:05 - May 16 by sg1912 |
Abortion should be available in the case of rape or incest, but there are also way too many women that get abortions just because of inconvenience.
.. and tensions with Iran come from another religious extremist sect that we’re not allowed to criticise, and I’m not talking about Islamists. |
In another thread just a couple of days ago you argued that Christianity plays no part in political decision making in the West. It was a justification of why ‘Islam is different’.
The only reason for believing life begins before it is medically possible (not probable, this is remotely possible) for a foetus to become self sustaining outside the womb, is religion. When that is is a matter for medical professionals. But is is an absolute certainty that it is not before, say, 20 weeks (which is a reasonable cut off in my opinion based on medical advance and testimony).
And if you genuinely believe life begins at conception, for religious reasons, you shouldn’t make an exception for rape etc. It makes no sense to do that.
In a more general sense, imposing your personal religious views on women is as abhorrent as any other religion inflicting their views on you. It’s none of your business.
As a final point, women don’t use abortion as a convenient form of contraception any more than men do. Unless you’re of the view that these women are getting pregnant on their own. | | | |
| Alabama on 16:30 - May 16 with 1689 views | Jonathans_coat |
| Alabama on 16:06 - May 16 by Lohengrin |
This is a child born at 24 weeks. Subject, no doubt, to any number of difficulties having been delivered so prematurely but unquestionably a sentient human being.
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Which is why abortion is illegal in this country after 24 weeks. | | | |
| Alabama on 16:35 - May 16 with 1679 views | Lohengrin |
| Alabama on 16:30 - May 16 by Jonathans_coat |
Which is why abortion is illegal in this country after 24 weeks. |
A few hours previously that child could well have been in its twenty third week.
You see where this is going. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Alabama on 16:49 - May 16 with 1654 views | Jonathans_coat |
| Alabama on 16:35 - May 16 by Lohengrin |
A few hours previously that child could well have been in its twenty third week.
You see where this is going. |
I am no expert in this field, and do not wish to exactly define when the cutoff should be. The cutoff has to be somewhere, and I am not arguing the merits of 24 weeks or otherwise.
The suggestion that the cutoff should be from moment of conception however, has little merit, as I am sure you would agree. | | | |
| Alabama on 17:15 - May 16 with 1630 views | JackSomething |
| Alabama on 13:48 - May 16 by sg1912 |
Are you saying there’s not enough contraception available to women and men for that matter?
I could understand if we were talking about a third world country, but we’re talking about the modern day West here.
I know a lot of women that have had upwards of 4 abortions due to laziness to use contraception, do you really think that is ok? |
"I know a lot of women that have had upwards of 4 abortions due to laziness to use contraception"
Heh, this topic's version of "I can't be racist/homophobic, I have lots of black/gay friends.
Looking forward to your answer to Jonathan's question. |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Alabama on 17:15 - May 16 with 1630 views | Highjack |
In the event of an alleged rape or incestuous (is that even a word? Doesn’t look right) act which results in a pregnancy, presumably the woman would need to go to court to prove the pregnancy was caused by rape or incest before any doctor would be willing to operate. That could take months or even years. It’s so hard to get convictions with rape at the best of times. Then presumably you could have an appeal process, etc. The baby would be in third grade before a decision is made.
It’s all a bit f*cked up really isn’t it? |  |
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| Alabama on 17:22 - May 16 with 1625 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Alabama on 17:15 - May 16 by Highjack |
In the event of an alleged rape or incestuous (is that even a word? Doesn’t look right) act which results in a pregnancy, presumably the woman would need to go to court to prove the pregnancy was caused by rape or incest before any doctor would be willing to operate. That could take months or even years. It’s so hard to get convictions with rape at the best of times. Then presumably you could have an appeal process, etc. The baby would be in third grade before a decision is made.
It’s all a bit f*cked up really isn’t it? |
The whole ethos of the religious right in the States is f*cked up.
The same people that believe in this situation that ALL life is a sacred, precious gift from God (even before it is actually life) also believe that the little brown kids being separated from their parents at the border are sub human and don’t deserve sympathy because they’re INVADING the country. | | | |
| Alabama on 17:28 - May 16 with 1617 views | Highjack |
| Alabama on 17:22 - May 16 by londonlisa2001 |
The whole ethos of the religious right in the States is f*cked up.
The same people that believe in this situation that ALL life is a sacred, precious gift from God (even before it is actually life) also believe that the little brown kids being separated from their parents at the border are sub human and don’t deserve sympathy because they’re INVADING the country. |
Yes and they are completely at ease with being all tooled up with weapons specifically designed to end human life in one pull of a trigger because it’s their constitutional right.
It’s a silly place. | |
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| Alabama on 17:29 - May 16 with 1616 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Alabama on 16:49 - May 16 by Jonathans_coat |
I am no expert in this field, and do not wish to exactly define when the cutoff should be. The cutoff has to be somewhere, and I am not arguing the merits of 24 weeks or otherwise.
The suggestion that the cutoff should be from moment of conception however, has little merit, as I am sure you would agree. |
The earliest a premature baby has EVER survived is a day short of 22 weeks. It’s happened twice. Ever.
No baby has ever survived, in any country, under any circumstance, before that.
There is an argument that the advance in medicine means the time limit could be reviewed (I personally think 20 weeks is about right), but the number of late stage abortions is tiny anyway, and they are almost always due to medical necessity. | | | |
| Alabama on 17:42 - May 16 with 1608 views | Highjack |
| Alabama on 13:48 - May 16 by sg1912 |
Are you saying there’s not enough contraception available to women and men for that matter?
I could understand if we were talking about a third world country, but we’re talking about the modern day West here.
I know a lot of women that have had upwards of 4 abortions due to laziness to use contraception, do you really think that is ok? |
It’s often not laziness to use contraception. It’s just pure animal instinct where people are in the throes of passion sometimes a lot of rational thought goes out the window. Now I’m not saying it’s ok. It is very irresponsible but it happens every day. | |
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| Alabama on 17:54 - May 16 with 1595 views | sg1912 |
| Alabama on 15:48 - May 16 by Jonathans_coat |
FAO sg1912.
A hypothetical question:-
You're in a fertility clinic. Why isn't important. The fire alarm goes off. You run for the exit. As you run down this hallway, you hear a child screaming from behind a door. You throw open the door and find a five-year-old child crying for help. They're in one corner of the room. In the other corner, you spot a frozen container labeled "1000 Viable Human Embryos." The smoke is rising. You start to choke. You know you can grab one or the other, but not both before you succumb to smoke inhalation and die, saving no one.
Do you A) save the child, or B) save the thousand embryos? There is no "C." "C" means you all die
May I put it to you, that if your answer is anything but A, you are a psychopath or a lier. [Post edited 16 May 2019 15:52]
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Obviously I would save the 5 year old child, but where do you draw the line..
How about 1000 20 week old baby’s or the 5 year old child?
I understand it’s a complex issue, my main issue is with the people who use the ‘women’s body, women’s choice’ mantra, it’s clearly not as black and white as that. | | | |
| Alabama on 18:04 - May 16 with 1589 views | Highjack |
| Alabama on 17:54 - May 16 by sg1912 |
Obviously I would save the 5 year old child, but where do you draw the line..
How about 1000 20 week old baby’s or the 5 year old child?
I understand it’s a complex issue, my main issue is with the people who use the ‘women’s body, women’s choice’ mantra, it’s clearly not as black and white as that. |
Think of the biggest poo you’ve ever had. You were straining and pushing away at that massive bugger for about ten minutes. It was really painful wasn’t it? There was a bit of blood in the bowl afterwards. Perhaps you should eat more fibre, or take more hydration on board.
Now think of that poo and multiply it’s size by about 20000% and imagine pushing it through your pelvic girdle and out through your genitals. You lose pints of blood. Sometimes you need to be cut open. Sometimes that bit of skin between your genitals and your arsehole gets torn apart like a piece of wet tissue.
It has to be the woman’s choice surely. | |
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| Alabama on 18:08 - May 16 with 1587 views | sg1912 |
| Alabama on 16:26 - May 16 by londonlisa2001 |
In another thread just a couple of days ago you argued that Christianity plays no part in political decision making in the West. It was a justification of why ‘Islam is different’.
The only reason for believing life begins before it is medically possible (not probable, this is remotely possible) for a foetus to become self sustaining outside the womb, is religion. When that is is a matter for medical professionals. But is is an absolute certainty that it is not before, say, 20 weeks (which is a reasonable cut off in my opinion based on medical advance and testimony).
And if you genuinely believe life begins at conception, for religious reasons, you shouldn’t make an exception for rape etc. It makes no sense to do that.
In a more general sense, imposing your personal religious views on women is as abhorrent as any other religion inflicting their views on you. It’s none of your business.
As a final point, women don’t use abortion as a convenient form of contraception any more than men do. Unless you’re of the view that these women are getting pregnant on their own. |
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that i am religious.
Is a child even self sustaining after it has been born, as it’s still dependent on others for its survival?
I agree with your last sentence, although if you’re going to use the ‘women’s body, women’s choice’ mantra, surely the responsibility falls on women? | | | |
| Alabama on 18:41 - May 16 with 1564 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Alabama on 18:08 - May 16 by sg1912 |
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that i am religious.
Is a child even self sustaining after it has been born, as it’s still dependent on others for its survival?
I agree with your last sentence, although if you’re going to use the ‘women’s body, women’s choice’ mantra, surely the responsibility falls on women? |
For clarity, I don’t think there’s any validity whatsoever in the ‘women use it to be lazy’ argument you proposed. I’m simply pointing out that contraception is not the sole preserve of a woman.
Women’s body, women’s choice isn’t a mantra - it’s a statement of fact.
Let’s force every man to have a vasectomy to save women having to use the pill. It’s reversible. So can be reversed when both parties are ready to have kids. Oh wait - that’s insane as it’s up to a man what happens to his body. See the issue?
It’s none of your business. Mine neither. It’s up to the woman involved. Full stop. | | | |
| Alabama on 18:44 - May 16 with 1560 views | Banosswan |
I'm amazed anyone can know many women who have had at least four abortions and then these women told them. I've ever only known of one woman I know who had one. |  |
| Ever since my son was... never conceived, because I've never had consensual sex without money involved... I've always kind of looked at you as... a thing, that I could live next to... in accordance with state laws. | | Poll: | How do you like your steak? |
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| Alabama on 19:24 - May 16 with 1519 views | controversial_jack |
| Alabama on 17:42 - May 16 by Highjack |
It’s often not laziness to use contraception. It’s just pure animal instinct where people are in the throes of passion sometimes a lot of rational thought goes out the window. Now I’m not saying it’s ok. It is very irresponsible but it happens every day. |
I bet we have all done it at some time. | | | |
| Alabama on 19:37 - May 16 with 1511 views | BrynCartwright |
Of course we have...it's called "getting the horn", severely problematical after a few ales especially. |  |
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