Season tickets on 18:05 - Apr 20 with 3362 views | 442Dale | Worth noting Part Two: there is a video interview available on the home page of the OS with Dale director David Bottomley, it's down near the form guide and Gallery. It was positive to hear there's a real belief we can increase crowds. At this moment in time I can't be bothered saying much else apart from compare what they hope in terms of the loyal fans renewing to the subsequent response from those very same people. | |
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Season tickets on 18:10 - Apr 20 with 3329 views | pioneer |
Season tickets on 18:05 - Apr 20 by 442Dale | Worth noting Part Two: there is a video interview available on the home page of the OS with Dale director David Bottomley, it's down near the form guide and Gallery. It was positive to hear there's a real belief we can increase crowds. At this moment in time I can't be bothered saying much else apart from compare what they hope in terms of the loyal fans renewing to the subsequent response from those very same people. |
loyalty is a two way street and Mr Bottomley is driving one way. | | | |
Season tickets on 18:21 - Apr 20 with 3289 views | lloydrafc | I am 16 going on 17 in the summer i am a student at Rochdale a fc but I will have to pay £259, with me being in full time education at the club how do they expect not only me but all students in full time education to pay this price? I personally think the under 16s should be changed to under 18s or a special student price | | | |
Season tickets on 18:23 - Apr 20 with 3283 views | 442Dale |
That is excellent. If anyone was in any doubt about what supporters and the organisation that represents them can do, read that. Of course we want something positive to come out of it to the benefit of all concerned, not least the football club, but this is a step towards achieving that. | |
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Season tickets on 19:03 - Apr 20 with 3193 views | ValleySaddler |
Season tickets on 18:21 - Apr 20 by lloydrafc | I am 16 going on 17 in the summer i am a student at Rochdale a fc but I will have to pay £259, with me being in full time education at the club how do they expect not only me but all students in full time education to pay this price? I personally think the under 16s should be changed to under 18s or a special student price |
My eldest daughter is in the same situation. Common sense should prevail and a season ticket should be sensibley priced for this age group. Our neighbours are offering tickets for £150 and some lads in my daughters classes who watch Burnley,will probably be watching premier league footy for £90 next season. My initial thoughts were that the £89 saved from my youngests season ticket would help offset the cost but as I live over the Lancashire border,that is looking unlikely..... Pi55ed off is an understatement | | | |
Season tickets on 19:25 - Apr 20 with 3142 views | pioneer |
Season tickets on 18:23 - Apr 20 by 442Dale | That is excellent. If anyone was in any doubt about what supporters and the organisation that represents them can do, read that. Of course we want something positive to come out of it to the benefit of all concerned, not least the football club, but this is a step towards achieving that. |
Yes excellent letter. Isnt it time that the trust board was free of Club employees. In effect one Trust board member is sending this letter to himself. I think if he had anything about him he would recognise the real, not just perceived, conflict of interest him sitting on the trust board involves and stand down. He might be a supporter at heart but he is paid by and possibly advising the people who are making these decisions. | | | |
Season tickets on 19:35 - Apr 20 with 3095 views | dingdangblue | If the club did renege and did an early bird discount what would people expect or be happy with? Personally I would be happy with 5% which would be £18.50 off my £370 ticket. Most fans will have a £25 voucher off also from this season so I would end up paying £326.50 or £14 per game. | |
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Season tickets on 19:41 - Apr 20 with 3083 views | dawlishdale |
Season tickets on 19:35 - Apr 20 by dingdangblue | If the club did renege and did an early bird discount what would people expect or be happy with? Personally I would be happy with 5% which would be £18.50 off my £370 ticket. Most fans will have a £25 voucher off also from this season so I would end up paying £326.50 or £14 per game. |
I'd buy one in an instant at what I paid for this seasons ticket. I reckon 90% of fans would do the same. | | | |
Season tickets on 19:54 - Apr 20 with 3052 views | dingdangblue |
Season tickets on 19:41 - Apr 20 by dawlishdale | I'd buy one in an instant at what I paid for this seasons ticket. I reckon 90% of fans would do the same. |
The problem is the £25 voucher. I didn't have one so I paid £333. Obviously those who had one would have paid £308. If you do last seasons payment what happens if it included a voucher? | |
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Season tickets on 19:54 - Apr 20 with 3051 views | Daleaholic | I'm in the very fortunate position where a large chunk of the cost of the season ticket will be gifted to me. Still, this doesn't make the situation okay. I was speaking to a friend last night who had come to his first Dale game this season due to now playing rugby on Saturdays. He watches the occasional Hornets game and said they use a 'card system'. This is exactly what we need. A membership card with a barcode & photo which is scanned and checked by the turnstile operator. With the equipment needed and the materials/printers/software required, you can't be looking at more than £20k surely? And this is likely to be more environmentally friendly than printing 2 thousand books? (Go green etc blah) From this, you can implement monthly direct debit payments on which I believe the uptake would be significant. £50/100 deposit and then a monthly fee. If the monthly fee isn't paid then you just 'suspend' the card and they won't be able to gain entry. Turnstile operator sends them round to the ticket office to settle their debt. We're in 2016, this technology is readily and easily available. RAFC do a LOT of things very well but when we've got an opportunity to really change the way people think of the club, we do a fantastic job of looking ridiculous. | |
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(No subject) (n/t) on 20:51 - Apr 20 with 2958 views | Toffeemanc |
Season tickets on 19:35 - Apr 20 by dingdangblue | If the club did renege and did an early bird discount what would people expect or be happy with? Personally I would be happy with 5% which would be £18.50 off my £370 ticket. Most fans will have a £25 voucher off also from this season so I would end up paying £326.50 or £14 per game. |
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Season tickets on 20:55 - Apr 20 with 2943 views | Toffeemanc |
Season tickets on 19:35 - Apr 20 by dingdangblue | If the club did renege and did an early bird discount what would people expect or be happy with? Personally I would be happy with 5% which would be £18.50 off my £370 ticket. Most fans will have a £25 voucher off also from this season so I would end up paying £326.50 or £14 per game. |
I think where the club really shot themselves in the foot was with the announcement of "a significant change in approach" which led most of us to think cheaper prices were imminent, so to then find out most of us are looking at an increase has made the whole situation worse than need have been. Had they not made the comment before the information was released I don't think the backlash would have been as bad as currently seen. I doubt the 5% you suggest would cut it with most supporters as this would still represent an increase on the price paid by early bird customers last season and would still make a mockery of the price freeze claim. Whilst like yourself I personally would be happy with 5% off as my circumstances mean it wouldn't be an issue for me personally, I do however appreciate everyone's circumstances are different and having to find an extra £30 - £40 at short notice can be difficult. Personally I think because of the way the issue has been dealt with and the wording of the original article the only thing that would probably work now would be a 10% discount off the announced prices. This would effectively make the prices for season ticket renewals the same as last year. For example my early bird season ticket for the Pearl Street last year cost £308 after using the money off voucher. This years renewal will currently cost £345 at the prices released after using my voucher from this seasons book, an increase of around 12%. If the club offered 10% off the prices released my ticket would be £370 - (10%) £37 - voucher £25 = £308 a price freeze in real terms. I think most of us would renew in this scenario but to benefit the club it would need to have an early bird time frame set, say up to the end of May. After this time the originally announced prices should stay in force and the club should issue a statement clearly stating that they will not be offering any early bird offers for the following season. The major problem I see now is however this plays out there will very likely be an impact to the club financially. If they now offer a discount to appease the fanbase the income is likely to be less than budgeted for and possibly affects the playing budget for next season. Similarly if the club does nothing and fans follow through with not renewing season tickets again the clubs income and possibly the playing budget is affected. Of the two options I suspect the discount option would give the club a better idea of the income we would potentially have from matchday attendances making it easier to allocate a budget. It's hard to see how the club can come out of this in a positive way and the real worry is it has an effect on the playing side which is currently the best it has ever been and shouldn't end up suffering due to this situation. | |
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Season tickets on 21:24 - Apr 20 with 2893 views | TalkingSutty |
Some of the lads on the Trust board are the Clubs biggest allies. When others are quick to criticise,often those individuals will look for middle ground and attempt to be the voice of reason. Personally, I think they lean a bit too far towards the Club at times and have mentioned it before.I don't think you could ever accuse them of being biased towards the Supporters.Thats why they can sit on the Trust board and I can't,it's my weakness not theirs Compiling that letter to the Directors wouldn't have been a easy thing to do and it would have been done with a heavy heart. It's a realisation that 'Team Rochdale' doesn't exist, it's gone. I also think it shows a disconnection between the Trust and the Directors, the word 'trust' being the big clue. It's a sad read and the authors of it shouldn't have been reduced to the stage of having to put it together. Volunteers who bend over backwards for the Club and they are now scrambling around to to try to retreave a very damaging situation. I genuinely feel sorry for them. We have other volunteers who go the extra mile for the Club, how are they viewed by those within the Club, are their efforts appreciated or just taken for granted? I've had digs at them in the past but I would like to offer my thanks regarding their efforts and the contents of this letter. Supporters Trusts are great for raising money etc but personally I want supporters welfare to be robustly addressed when it needs to be,and on this issue they have done their members proud today. [Post edited 20 Apr 2016 21:54]
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Season tickets on 21:40 - Apr 20 with 2828 views | Dorislove |
Season tickets on 21:24 - Apr 20 by TalkingSutty | Some of the lads on the Trust board are the Clubs biggest allies. When others are quick to criticise,often those individuals will look for middle ground and attempt to be the voice of reason. Personally, I think they lean a bit too far towards the Club at times and have mentioned it before.I don't think you could ever accuse them of being biased towards the Supporters.Thats why they can sit on the Trust board and I can't,it's my weakness not theirs Compiling that letter to the Directors wouldn't have been a easy thing to do and it would have been done with a heavy heart. It's a realisation that 'Team Rochdale' doesn't exist, it's gone. I also think it shows a disconnection between the Trust and the Directors, the word 'trust' being the big clue. It's a sad read and the authors of it shouldn't have been reduced to the stage of having to put it together. Volunteers who bend over backwards for the Club and they are now scrambling around to to try to retreave a very damaging situation. I genuinely feel sorry for them. We have other volunteers who go the extra mile for the Club, how are they viewed by those within the Club, are their efforts appreciated or just taken for granted? I've had digs at them in the past but I would like to offer my thanks regarding their efforts and the contents of this letter. Supporters Trusts are great for raising money etc but personally I want supporters welfare to be robustly addressed when it needs to be,and on this issue they have done their members proud today. [Post edited 20 Apr 2016 21:54]
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Thats a fair reflection TS ,conflict of interest ? | | | |
Season tickets on 21:40 - Apr 20 with 2800 views | pnc4eva1 | Until recently I bought a season ticket. However I've moved away from the area so have to get a country wide ticket. It's £153 for ten matches. Basically a game for free if I pay up front. Not brilliant seeing as fuel prices are increasing again and add to my costs. I know the club get nothing from my fuel payments but as I travel to the game and have to eat at the ground I pay more than £17 back. As there is no early bird saving I am probably not going to bother and therefore will not come up at all. That means the club will be down approximately £200 for the ten games I would have attended. | |
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Season tickets on 21:44 - Apr 20 with 2784 views | 442Dale |
Season tickets on 20:55 - Apr 20 by Toffeemanc | I think where the club really shot themselves in the foot was with the announcement of "a significant change in approach" which led most of us to think cheaper prices were imminent, so to then find out most of us are looking at an increase has made the whole situation worse than need have been. Had they not made the comment before the information was released I don't think the backlash would have been as bad as currently seen. I doubt the 5% you suggest would cut it with most supporters as this would still represent an increase on the price paid by early bird customers last season and would still make a mockery of the price freeze claim. Whilst like yourself I personally would be happy with 5% off as my circumstances mean it wouldn't be an issue for me personally, I do however appreciate everyone's circumstances are different and having to find an extra £30 - £40 at short notice can be difficult. Personally I think because of the way the issue has been dealt with and the wording of the original article the only thing that would probably work now would be a 10% discount off the announced prices. This would effectively make the prices for season ticket renewals the same as last year. For example my early bird season ticket for the Pearl Street last year cost £308 after using the money off voucher. This years renewal will currently cost £345 at the prices released after using my voucher from this seasons book, an increase of around 12%. If the club offered 10% off the prices released my ticket would be £370 - (10%) £37 - voucher £25 = £308 a price freeze in real terms. I think most of us would renew in this scenario but to benefit the club it would need to have an early bird time frame set, say up to the end of May. After this time the originally announced prices should stay in force and the club should issue a statement clearly stating that they will not be offering any early bird offers for the following season. The major problem I see now is however this plays out there will very likely be an impact to the club financially. If they now offer a discount to appease the fanbase the income is likely to be less than budgeted for and possibly affects the playing budget for next season. Similarly if the club does nothing and fans follow through with not renewing season tickets again the clubs income and possibly the playing budget is affected. Of the two options I suspect the discount option would give the club a better idea of the income we would potentially have from matchday attendances making it easier to allocate a budget. It's hard to see how the club can come out of this in a positive way and the real worry is it has an effect on the playing side which is currently the best it has ever been and shouldn't end up suffering due to this situation. |
I still believe the club have a really good opportunity to come out of it positively. The Trust have summed up how supporters feel in their letter, all the club have to do is acknowledge they got it wrong, apologise and meet the measures listed in the Trust's letter - all of which aren't asking too much. I actually think it's ceased to be about price, more about how the club respond to how their fans feel. There's a real chance for bridges to be built with some effective PR. Just being the football club that listens would be a massive step in the right direction. If you listen to that interview on the OS, the board rightly acknowledge how much they value their loyal fans. There's no reason to believe this can't end in a good way because they're halfway there by saying that. Those loyal fans have spoken. | |
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Season tickets on 21:52 - Apr 20 with 2757 views | TalkingSutty |
Season tickets on 21:40 - Apr 20 by Dorislove | Thats a fair reflection TS ,conflict of interest ? |
Well if you are the Chief Executive of the Football Club and you find yourself on the board of the Supporters Trust would it not make sense to discuss Season Ticket pricing ideas, what a fantastic opportunity to test the waters. Chew the fat over a pint and try to glean what Supporters would deem as acceptable, then work from there. Announce that a member of the Trust Board would be involved in discussions, even if it's just a bit of spin. Why would you not do that? [Post edited 20 Apr 2016 21:57]
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Season tickets on 14:13 - Apr 21 with 2489 views | R17ALE |
Season tickets on 21:52 - Apr 20 by TalkingSutty | Well if you are the Chief Executive of the Football Club and you find yourself on the board of the Supporters Trust would it not make sense to discuss Season Ticket pricing ideas, what a fantastic opportunity to test the waters. Chew the fat over a pint and try to glean what Supporters would deem as acceptable, then work from there. Announce that a member of the Trust Board would be involved in discussions, even if it's just a bit of spin. Why would you not do that? [Post edited 20 Apr 2016 21:57]
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I don't think the club could spin a coin TS! It's been a shortcoming for years. As mentioned by virtually everyone, it's so sad taken into context with all that is so good about the club this season. I've bitten my tongue on this one, but I'm afraid the powers that be need to go on a Sales Course and learn how to sell a product. Rule number one: If it's good enough, the price becomes less relevant. Rule number two: Create urgency and a clamour to buy. Rule number three: Reward those who buy early with a cheaper price. We've managed to miss all three rules spectacularly. The way to apply Rule Number One is to focus on the number of games supporters will see for free. I've had to read all the small print to find this and the answer is 4.5. Seriously. 4.5 Why not go the whole hog and round it up to 5? But, 5 is too few for those who cannot make Tuesday nights as we've had six this season. At a stroke around 600 fans are not going to buy because of this. Solution? Make it 7 games free and advertise it as "Watch 30% of your football for FREE" The actual maths from the club is wrong anyway. In the Sandy a season ticket will cost £315. If I pay at the gate though 23 x £15 = £345 which means I'll get two free games, not 4.5 Finally, your last point is so relevant and so very glaringly obvious. The club could have hand-picked a few concerned fans who would have shown them what to sell, how to sell it, to who, and for how much. That they didn't even ask tells us all we need to know. And this isn't a dig at staff, this type of leadership has to come from above. But I'll still be buying one!! | |
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Season tickets on 14:34 - Apr 21 with 2440 views | dingdangblue |
Season tickets on 14:13 - Apr 21 by R17ALE | I don't think the club could spin a coin TS! It's been a shortcoming for years. As mentioned by virtually everyone, it's so sad taken into context with all that is so good about the club this season. I've bitten my tongue on this one, but I'm afraid the powers that be need to go on a Sales Course and learn how to sell a product. Rule number one: If it's good enough, the price becomes less relevant. Rule number two: Create urgency and a clamour to buy. Rule number three: Reward those who buy early with a cheaper price. We've managed to miss all three rules spectacularly. The way to apply Rule Number One is to focus on the number of games supporters will see for free. I've had to read all the small print to find this and the answer is 4.5. Seriously. 4.5 Why not go the whole hog and round it up to 5? But, 5 is too few for those who cannot make Tuesday nights as we've had six this season. At a stroke around 600 fans are not going to buy because of this. Solution? Make it 7 games free and advertise it as "Watch 30% of your football for FREE" The actual maths from the club is wrong anyway. In the Sandy a season ticket will cost £315. If I pay at the gate though 23 x £15 = £345 which means I'll get two free games, not 4.5 Finally, your last point is so relevant and so very glaringly obvious. The club could have hand-picked a few concerned fans who would have shown them what to sell, how to sell it, to who, and for how much. That they didn't even ask tells us all we need to know. And this isn't a dig at staff, this type of leadership has to come from above. But I'll still be buying one!! |
Think the Sandy is £17 now not £15. | |
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Season tickets on 14:46 - Apr 21 with 2390 views | Toffeemanc |
Season tickets on 21:44 - Apr 20 by 442Dale | I still believe the club have a really good opportunity to come out of it positively. The Trust have summed up how supporters feel in their letter, all the club have to do is acknowledge they got it wrong, apologise and meet the measures listed in the Trust's letter - all of which aren't asking too much. I actually think it's ceased to be about price, more about how the club respond to how their fans feel. There's a real chance for bridges to be built with some effective PR. Just being the football club that listens would be a massive step in the right direction. If you listen to that interview on the OS, the board rightly acknowledge how much they value their loyal fans. There's no reason to believe this can't end in a good way because they're halfway there by saying that. Those loyal fans have spoken. |
I hope you are right and the club do find a way to come out of it positively although I am finding it hard to see how. I do believe the trust have done a very good job with the letter but ultimately they can only relay the current feeling among our supporters and unfortunately I don't believe they have any real control over the situation. If the club were to meet the measures in the trusts letter then surely there will be a negative financial impact on the club as they won't be taking as much money from season ticket sales as they would have budgeted for when announcing the original prices. - Nothing positive for the club here. I can't agree that it has ceased to be about price. Whilst I can see where you are coming from as there does seem to be plenty of supporters who are as upset about the price freeze claim and then looking at paying a price increase (myself included) as there are supporters upset by the prices alone. A quick read of this forum will tell you that for a significant number of supporters on here it is very clearly all about the prices and nothing else. Should the club respond by backing down and reducing the prices I'd agree it would build bridges with the current existing supporters, but on a wider national scale we could be seen to be in a similar situation than Liverpool had recently with their fans and ticket prices. Does anyone think Liverpool FC came out of their situation in a positive light in the media etc.? I think most fans will only remember the Liverpool situation as the club being greedy and the fans putting them in their place, hardly positive PR for the club even when they did the right thing in the end and the same could end up being said of us in our situation. I had already listened to the interview and agree it was a good one and does acknowledge the importance and loyalty of our existing season ticket holders and fans in general. There also seems to be a healthy appetite to increase numbers something I really want the club to succeed with because the way the club is currently moving forward both on and off the pitch this season the future is potentially exciting and something you want to be a part of. Unfortunately because of the timing of the interviews release on the website and the issues with the season ticket prices it's now very easy to see this as being nothing more than paying lip service to fans, although I would admit personally I did believe the whole interview and sentiment behind it to be 100% genuine. As I said I really hope you are right and the club do find a positive way to come out of this and put the whole situation behind them. For the record I will be renewing both mine and my 16 year old's season tickets for the Pearl Street regardless of the outcome on prices as Dale is where I spend my spare cash and enjoy my leisure time and as I referred to in my original post the increase for my personal circumstances is ok for me if not ideal. | |
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Season tickets on 14:52 - Apr 21 with 2368 views | R17ALE |
Season tickets on 14:34 - Apr 21 by dingdangblue | Think the Sandy is £17 now not £15. |
Is it? In that case I retract my earlier comment. It is 4.5 games for free, or 20%. Just shows you how long it is since I paid cash at the Sandy. Last time I did, it was about £2.50! | |
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Season tickets on 15:05 - Apr 21 with 2344 views | dingdangblue |
Season tickets on 14:52 - Apr 21 by R17ALE | Is it? In that case I retract my earlier comment. It is 4.5 games for free, or 20%. Just shows you how long it is since I paid cash at the Sandy. Last time I did, it was about £2.50! |
4.47 free games the sneaky gets! How do you get .47 of a game? | |
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Season tickets on 15:15 - Apr 21 with 2314 views | SuddenLad |
Season tickets on 14:46 - Apr 21 by Toffeemanc | I hope you are right and the club do find a way to come out of it positively although I am finding it hard to see how. I do believe the trust have done a very good job with the letter but ultimately they can only relay the current feeling among our supporters and unfortunately I don't believe they have any real control over the situation. If the club were to meet the measures in the trusts letter then surely there will be a negative financial impact on the club as they won't be taking as much money from season ticket sales as they would have budgeted for when announcing the original prices. - Nothing positive for the club here. I can't agree that it has ceased to be about price. Whilst I can see where you are coming from as there does seem to be plenty of supporters who are as upset about the price freeze claim and then looking at paying a price increase (myself included) as there are supporters upset by the prices alone. A quick read of this forum will tell you that for a significant number of supporters on here it is very clearly all about the prices and nothing else. Should the club respond by backing down and reducing the prices I'd agree it would build bridges with the current existing supporters, but on a wider national scale we could be seen to be in a similar situation than Liverpool had recently with their fans and ticket prices. Does anyone think Liverpool FC came out of their situation in a positive light in the media etc.? I think most fans will only remember the Liverpool situation as the club being greedy and the fans putting them in their place, hardly positive PR for the club even when they did the right thing in the end and the same could end up being said of us in our situation. I had already listened to the interview and agree it was a good one and does acknowledge the importance and loyalty of our existing season ticket holders and fans in general. There also seems to be a healthy appetite to increase numbers something I really want the club to succeed with because the way the club is currently moving forward both on and off the pitch this season the future is potentially exciting and something you want to be a part of. Unfortunately because of the timing of the interviews release on the website and the issues with the season ticket prices it's now very easy to see this as being nothing more than paying lip service to fans, although I would admit personally I did believe the whole interview and sentiment behind it to be 100% genuine. As I said I really hope you are right and the club do find a positive way to come out of this and put the whole situation behind them. For the record I will be renewing both mine and my 16 year old's season tickets for the Pearl Street regardless of the outcome on prices as Dale is where I spend my spare cash and enjoy my leisure time and as I referred to in my original post the increase for my personal circumstances is ok for me if not ideal. |
Being totally honest, I know nothing about any issues at Liverpool involving season tickets, but I'll guarantee that there is a waiting list to buy them - unlike Spotland. Of course the issue here is about prices. Fans feel as though an attempt has been made to 'con' them into believing that are getting a good deal. The exact opposite is true, whe compared to previous years. The other issue is about the disrespectul treatment dished out to the most loyal supporters of all - the season ticket holders. They are the life-blood of the club who have readily stumped up large sums of money year-on-year to support Dale and whose cash supports the club during the summer months.. The club has now withdrawn the incentive to buy a season ticket in one fell swoop. No 'early-bird' offer, (and no explanation why) vouchers that are of very little benefit to the purchaser, a price increase (despite claims otherwise) and a completely unnecessary 'admin fee' for a 'free' ticket. It is ridiculous. This issue is not now about 'saving face', it's about simply being honest enough to hold up hands and say: 'Sorry, we got this one wrong - here are the amended details'. That will go a million miles towards healing the rift and give supporters back the belief that there is indeed a 'Team Rochdale'. Anything less and the nasty taste will be present for a long time. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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Season tickets on 15:16 - Apr 21 with 2312 views | pioneer | "If the club were to meet the measures in the trusts letter then surely there will be a negative financial impact on the club as they won't be taking as much money from season ticket sales as they would have budgeted for when announcing the original prices. - Nothing positive for the club here. " The amount they budgeted for would have depended on what they assumed the response to the pricing structure would be. Based on the feedback on here - they miscalculated that very badly so revisiting the pricing structure might actually bring them nearer to their budget than not revisiting it. As TS (I think) has described there are still ways of getting a ST or attending games on a pay as you go basis without increasing your total expenditure at the club. | | | |
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