| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? 23:08 - Feb 19 with 45890 views | GloryHunter |
I was 22 in 1975, and I voted "No". This was based on my political heroes Michael Foot and Tony Benn warning against the dangers of entering the EU. After that, I softened my opposition somewhat. I like the fact that I can now cross most European borders without being searched and showing my passport, and I have since acquired a German wife, who is free to live and work in the UK (although she is not allowed to vote here, despite having paid UK taxes for 25 years). But, to be honest, I am thinking of voting "Out". What do other posters on here think? |  | | |  |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 23:12 - Feb 19 with 17736 views | RangersDave |
Love the 'agreement'
We will let you object, but then we will put it to a membership vote and to take your chance..... And it could be no and you have to abide by the decision!
What a load of bollo cks.........and then some.
Deal? Crap, there's no real deal but Cameron will spin it, the press will spin it, the mp's will spin it.
Full say over the free trade single market? Lol more tosh, as the union can vote us down.
Give us the feckin vote now! |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 23:50 - Feb 19 with 17689 views | Brightonhoop |
I think Boris Johnson will be PM by the end of March.
There's serious ramifications of walking, not least for me in Spain, but how will the UK cope with a million or so English having to return from Spain, hundreds of thousands in France, how will the NHS cope with that influx, seriously?
Personal situation aside I'd like to see UK leave and ditch Trident and start making it's own way rather than carrying on like it was still Victorian. UK is an absolute joke from overseas. On every level.
I think the Tories will splt down the middle in this one and it will ruin them for several generations, it's been coming since Thatchers era, and now they have to fall on there sword, so we shall see.
Thought Nicholas Soames description of Farage today as a pub bore was spot on. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 23:52 - Feb 19 with 17686 views | Aitch |
George Galloway (a man I normally can't stand) said tonight that whatever your vision for this country it cannot come to pass unless we take back the sovereignty of our country & I wholeheartedly agree with that. Our government should be the only body deciding the future of our country and that'll never be the case while we're in the EU.
Unequivocal "Out" for me. |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 00:05 - Feb 20 with 17673 views | HollowayRanger |
If we vote to stay then Germany won europe without firing a shot |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 00:15 - Feb 20 with 17662 views | DWQPR |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 23:50 - Feb 19 by Brightonhoop |
I think Boris Johnson will be PM by the end of March.
There's serious ramifications of walking, not least for me in Spain, but how will the UK cope with a million or so English having to return from Spain, hundreds of thousands in France, how will the NHS cope with that influx, seriously?
Personal situation aside I'd like to see UK leave and ditch Trident and start making it's own way rather than carrying on like it was still Victorian. UK is an absolute joke from overseas. On every level.
I think the Tories will splt down the middle in this one and it will ruin them for several generations, it's been coming since Thatchers era, and now they have to fall on there sword, so we shall see.
Thought Nicholas Soames description of Farage today as a pub bore was spot on. |
Brighton, I cannot see leaving the EU making one iota of difference to this Brits living in Spain. The vast majority are retired, have never registered for Spanish national insurance, have their own health insurance and are financially self-sufficient. They have never been a drain on the Spanish economy, in fact, if anything they have been a major boost, 'investing' into property, creating businesses and therefor employment and spending their pensions and savings. Regions like Almeria would probably have remained a third world environment without the British. My village of Arboleas would still be very much a place where donkeys would have outnumbered cars without the British coming over.
In essence the EU would always do their best to accommodate the UK due to the size of the British economy and the amount of trade we do with the rest of Europe. If the vote is a 'no' then I suspect that we would continue with Europe in a similar way as Norway and Switzerland does. In reality though the vote I feel will be down to one issue, and that is immigration. Economic arguments, benefit arguments and Sovereignty arguments over primacy of law will be irrelevant. |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 00:23 - Feb 20 with 17644 views | six_foot_two |
As it appears that the people wanting us to leave are generally fat middle aged right wing tories , I am in . |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 00:44 - Feb 20 with 17623 views | jamois |
I genuinely don't care |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 01:15 - Feb 20 with 17598 views | connell10 |
Id vote stay in but if it destroys the tory party ill vote out! |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 02:59 - Feb 20 with 17567 views | FDC |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 00:23 - Feb 20 by six_foot_two |
As it appears that the people wanting us to leave are generally fat middle aged right wing tories , I am in . |
Not true. I'm not a Tory, and not yet middle aged ....
There's a progressive case for leaving the EU--hardly a democratic institution is it? See Greece--that needs to be made louder, if for no other reason than to prevent UKIP and elements of the Tory party benefiting by claiming a victory after a British exit.
Whatever the EU was supposed to be it clearly doesnt serve the interest of workers, here or elsewhere. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 2:59]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 03:21 - Feb 20 with 17554 views | FredManRave |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 02:59 - Feb 20 by FDC |
Not true. I'm not a Tory, and not yet middle aged ....
There's a progressive case for leaving the EU--hardly a democratic institution is it? See Greece--that needs to be made louder, if for no other reason than to prevent UKIP and elements of the Tory party benefiting by claiming a victory after a British exit.
Whatever the EU was supposed to be it clearly doesnt serve the interest of workers, here or elsewhere. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 2:59]
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Are you Paddy Kenny?! |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 05:37 - Feb 20 with 17526 views | jamois |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 02:59 - Feb 20 by FDC |
Not true. I'm not a Tory, and not yet middle aged ....
There's a progressive case for leaving the EU--hardly a democratic institution is it? See Greece--that needs to be made louder, if for no other reason than to prevent UKIP and elements of the Tory party benefiting by claiming a victory after a British exit.
Whatever the EU was supposed to be it clearly doesnt serve the interest of workers, here or elsewhere. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 2:59]
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You may be right but I don't think Greece exemplifies it. What happened to Greece is attributable to something more insidious than an undemocratic EU. It's just that EU technocrats presided over its processing and play out through the media. | |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 06:06 - Feb 20 with 17517 views | essextaxiboy |
I am a Tory and middle aged. Camerons deal can be picked apart by the European parliament ....but only after we have voted to stay in .
Its not about Galloway , Farage or Cameron its the future of this country for our children and grandchildren .
I firmly believe they need us more than we need them . I am voting to come out .That would be the end for Cameron and we would need a PM who campaigned out to take us out . Michael Gove would be my choice .
I think Cameron should offer another Independence vote for Scotland if they vote differently to the rest of the UK .
I see thousands of German cars at the airports every day , those companys will want a trade deal with us within months of an out vote . Others will follow .
When a big name like Branson comes out in favour of staying I ask whats in it for them personally . Most of them wanted us to join the Eurozone which shows the quality of their judgement IMO . |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 06:19 - Feb 20 with 17512 views | essextaxiboy |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 02:59 - Feb 20 by FDC |
Not true. I'm not a Tory, and not yet middle aged ....
There's a progressive case for leaving the EU--hardly a democratic institution is it? See Greece--that needs to be made louder, if for no other reason than to prevent UKIP and elements of the Tory party benefiting by claiming a victory after a British exit.
Whatever the EU was supposed to be it clearly doesnt serve the interest of workers, here or elsewhere. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 2:59]
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I am not a UKIP voter.but how could they not claim a victory if we vote out ? .Its the reason they were formed and exist . They are the reason we have the referendum . They wont stay around its job done for them . Farage will go into the the jungle to do Bushtucker trials and the rest will rejoin a unified Tory Party . | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 06:23 - Feb 20 with 17509 views | essextaxiboy |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 23:50 - Feb 19 by Brightonhoop |
I think Boris Johnson will be PM by the end of March.
There's serious ramifications of walking, not least for me in Spain, but how will the UK cope with a million or so English having to return from Spain, hundreds of thousands in France, how will the NHS cope with that influx, seriously?
Personal situation aside I'd like to see UK leave and ditch Trident and start making it's own way rather than carrying on like it was still Victorian. UK is an absolute joke from overseas. On every level.
I think the Tories will splt down the middle in this one and it will ruin them for several generations, it's been coming since Thatchers era, and now they have to fall on there sword, so we shall see.
Thought Nicholas Soames description of Farage today as a pub bore was spot on. |
Big choice for Boris . If he campaigns for in and we vote out how can he be PM . We need someone who agrees with the result . | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 06:40 - Feb 20 with 17505 views | ElHoop |
I don't want to leave the EU but they've left us with no logical option but to vote 'out' if you wish to have some idea as to how many people might come into this country and how many homes hospitals and schools that they'll all need. These areas are already hard enough to manage but if the Euro goes tits up again then it will get far worse and there will be nothing that we can do if we are still in. If we leave it's the EU's fault and not ours. The EU in its current format could do us more harm than good. I'd rather take a chance on leaving than staying, but whatever we do is taking a big chance. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 07:36 - Feb 20 with 17452 views | Brightonhoop |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 00:15 - Feb 20 by DWQPR |
Brighton, I cannot see leaving the EU making one iota of difference to this Brits living in Spain. The vast majority are retired, have never registered for Spanish national insurance, have their own health insurance and are financially self-sufficient. They have never been a drain on the Spanish economy, in fact, if anything they have been a major boost, 'investing' into property, creating businesses and therefor employment and spending their pensions and savings. Regions like Almeria would probably have remained a third world environment without the British. My village of Arboleas would still be very much a place where donkeys would have outnumbered cars without the British coming over.
In essence the EU would always do their best to accommodate the UK due to the size of the British economy and the amount of trade we do with the rest of Europe. If the vote is a 'no' then I suspect that we would continue with Europe in a similar way as Norway and Switzerland does. In reality though the vote I feel will be down to one issue, and that is immigration. Economic arguments, benefit arguments and Sovereignty arguments over primacy of law will be irrelevant. |
I think trade agreements etc will be put in place pretty quickly and agreements of some sought for trade offs between countries including Spain will also be established pretty quickly too. There are a very large number of people from the UK here living solely on asic state oensions because UK money goes so much further here, but the doubt over a right to remain is substantial. I have talked to hunreds of people in that situation who do rely on the Spanish health system andthere are already agreements in place in which UK Gov pays around £3000 per year for pensioners to use the Spanish health system because it is so much cheaper than them returning and using the NHS, so such agreements are likely to proliferate. Alot of people who are able have taken dual nationality on an Irish passport just to remain an Eu Cit in case of the out vote and all the doubt it has created.
Whilst other Spanish commentators note also UK ex-pats are not economically active as pensioners, now the housing market has collapsed I dont think they yet see us as contributers to the local economic, they only notice big ticket sales such as houses etc. Arboleas is unique as 60% Brit. I remember the builders pulling up to the banks and the bank manager coming out with 7 or 8000 for them, they wouldn't even get out of their Mercss to go into the bank, when two years previously they had been on carts pulled by donkeys. Now that has ground to a halt they dont see us as the cash cow they once did.
Uk is too lucrative a market for Europe to turn their backs on certainly, but the doubt this creates will see alot of ex-Pats returningto the UK from all over Europe. Which is going to put a heck of a pressure on an NHS already £2.3 Billion overspent. I am certain the outers will depose Cameron nw within 6 weeks and Boris will likely be the successor.
When are you next in Almeria? [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 8:37]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 07:44 - Feb 20 with 17438 views | londonscottish |
I don't like one but what the EU has become. We joined a common market which made sense to most of us but this has really just turned out to be a slightly disappointing customs union. And we now have tons of integrationist politics loaded on top by very expensive career politicians for whom noone has ever voted.
BUT, speaking of expensive career politicians for whom noone has ever voted that revolting little rabble rouser, Nicola Sturgeon wants the UK to vote for an exit so she can run another "once in a lifetime, voice of a generation" Scottish referendum.
So, purely to piss the Nats off I'm voting to stay in. |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 07:49 - Feb 20 with 17426 views | loftboy |
Out for me. |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 07:51 - Feb 20 with 17425 views | Watford_Ranger |
The arguments for staying in are all based on theory IMO. I don't buy for a minute that trade will be hit. As said above, we'll get a similar deal to the Swiss. French and German consumers and importers/exporters aren't just going to allow tariffs to be lobbed onto UK goods. A sixth form economics student could tell you trade barriers aren't worth putting in place. Out for me. | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? (n/t) on 08:11 - Feb 20 with 17391 views | danehoop |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 07:51 - Feb 20 by Watford_Ranger |
The arguments for staying in are all based on theory IMO. I don't buy for a minute that trade will be hit. As said above, we'll get a similar deal to the Swiss. French and German consumers and importers/exporters aren't just going to allow tariffs to be lobbed onto UK goods. A sixth form economics student could tell you trade barriers aren't worth putting in place. Out for me. |
[Post edited 20 Feb 2016 17:07]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 08:11 - Feb 20 with 17393 views | wortonranger |
I feel this thread is very premature and raises in me a huge concern about a decision that will impact on me and mine for generations. Whilst my gut reaction is IN based on a lifetime where I have increasingly enjoyed the benefits of breaking down the artificial boundaries that divide us whilst preserving the diversity that makes life worthwhile, this is a hugely complex topic that, I sense, the great majority have little real understanding of. The arguments are many and varied and primed for politicians of all hues to make short term capital from. I pray that both sides of the debate present their cases in a clear way to help us to understand the issues as well as we can and that's when people should decide. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 08:20 - Feb 20 with 17380 views | billericaydicky |
I'm certain that after yesterday's 'historic' deal that the in campaign will win as many of the undecideds will now be persuaded to vote that way.
Some good points made in this thread and it will be interesting to see where Boris heads. I think that for many they will opt for the better the devil you know option. Staying in now 2/5 with the bookmakers I note.
For me as a slightly overweight, middle aged working class boy from Dagenham who reads The Telegraph - I'm out. Just. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 8:22]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 08:28 - Feb 20 with 17364 views | RangersDave |
European Union is communism, pure and simple.
Ironic really as Germany is still really right wing! | |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 08:28 - Feb 20 with 17360 views | JAPRANGERS |
Can't vote butttt if I could, it would be OUT OUT OUT.
I shall watch from afar. |  | | |
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still out though. 