| Why Do Managers See Different? 16:58 - Feb 5 with 2570 views | Boss_Hog |
Over many years of watching Dale, I've often stood on the terraces and wondered if our manager is watching a different game to me. I first started to notice it when Graham Barrow was manager but last night I stood on Sandy Lane and shook my head in disbelief at some of the things I was watching and wondered how JM didn't see the same things as me.
Practically every fan around me was in disbelief that Devonte Rodney played 86 minutes for example. Why didn't our manager see he was offering nothing and practically giving the ball away every time he got it? Harvey Gilmour was the same. He lost possession every time he tried a forward pass, he was outmuscled constantly and yet he played all game.
We continued to hoof the ball upfield towards Kairo Mitchell, yet at no stage did we give him any support or play a second striker. What did we expect him to do? There is no point him flicking it on, he's upfront on his own ffs. If that is our only form of attack, which it clearly was, get somebody around him and try to play off the second ball. Even when Hendo came on, he didn't play as a striker, he played as number 10 and so nothing changed.
No Plan B whatsoever but it just frustrates me when our manager sees things so differently to the fans on the terraces. |  | | |  |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 09:29 - Feb 6 with 2155 views | Daleaholic |
They do indeed watch a different game. You can tell that by the delusional post match interviews we see week in week out. You find it a lot with people in football or people who have played at any level above Sunday league. 'I've played football so I know better than you' attitude. So they dismiss common sense as nonsense.
Managers task players with individual tasks on the pitch and it seems as long as the player is doing what they're asked, the manager seems happy - regardless of the result.
Keith Hill used to occasionally watch from the top of the Main Stand. Perhaps JMc could benefit from doing the same and understanding what fans see.
This style of football is so incredibly frustrating because one game we can look like prime Barcelona and the next we look like Rochdale. |  |
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| Why Do Managers See Different? on 09:43 - Feb 6 with 2116 views | James1980 |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 09:29 - Feb 6 by Daleaholic |
They do indeed watch a different game. You can tell that by the delusional post match interviews we see week in week out. You find it a lot with people in football or people who have played at any level above Sunday league. 'I've played football so I know better than you' attitude. So they dismiss common sense as nonsense.
Managers task players with individual tasks on the pitch and it seems as long as the player is doing what they're asked, the manager seems happy - regardless of the result.
Keith Hill used to occasionally watch from the top of the Main Stand. Perhaps JMc could benefit from doing the same and understanding what fans see.
This style of football is so incredibly frustrating because one game we can look like prime Barcelona and the next we look like Rochdale. |
If Jim's management style is one of positive reinforcement he isn't going to slate players during post match interviews [Post edited 6 Feb 9:44]
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| Why Do Managers See Different? on 09:45 - Feb 6 with 2098 views | AtThePeake |
I think with the Gilmour one, a lack of alternatives is probably a big part of the reason. I'm not sure if Weston and Barlow's absences have been explained but I can't really see another player in that squad capable of playing CM right now - Burger was played there earlier in the season I know but that was due to absolute necessity and he clearly wasn't ready to play that role at this level. |  |
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| Why Do Managers See Different? on 10:12 - Feb 6 with 2038 views | EllDale |
Berger is a decent little footballer but the operative word is little.
What we need to really proper in this league is a warrior who can put himself about.
Oh for a Gary Jones, Marty Lund, Stephen Dawson midfielder!
That type of player probably doesn’t suit the BJ template though. | | | |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 12:25 - Feb 6 with 1837 views | Dalenet |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 10:12 - Feb 6 by EllDale |
Berger is a decent little footballer but the operative word is little.
What we need to really proper in this league is a warrior who can put himself about.
Oh for a Gary Jones, Marty Lund, Stephen Dawson midfielder!
That type of player probably doesn’t suit the BJ template though. |
Or an Ollie Rathbone terrior.
I think most of us see the same thing with midfield. Gilmore is a strong lad with lots of experience. But against Yeovil in the first half he continually lost the ball, and the same for the whole game against Oldham. East can't do everything. And neither seem willing to take a shot when on the edge of the box.
As for Jim, I don't listen to his interviews anymore. I find it too baffling. I don't mind us being beaten by a better side, so long as we have done our best and been entertained for at least some of the game. There is so much potential ..... we only see it every third game. Its a good job we don't need to attract new fans. | | | |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 15:14 - Feb 6 with 1637 views | davidab2202 |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 09:29 - Feb 6 by Daleaholic |
They do indeed watch a different game. You can tell that by the delusional post match interviews we see week in week out. You find it a lot with people in football or people who have played at any level above Sunday league. 'I've played football so I know better than you' attitude. So they dismiss common sense as nonsense.
Managers task players with individual tasks on the pitch and it seems as long as the player is doing what they're asked, the manager seems happy - regardless of the result.
Keith Hill used to occasionally watch from the top of the Main Stand. Perhaps JMc could benefit from doing the same and understanding what fans see.
This style of football is so incredibly frustrating because one game we can look like prime Barcelona and the next we look like Rochdale. |
Do wonder as to whether the" possession based football" is being found out.
If Declan Rice can get dispossed on the edge of his own area then there is not a chance it won't happen at our level
Next point.Last Saturday Brighton had 64 per cent of the play and lose 7-0 .
Is the end of possession based football coming to an end ? | | | |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 16:03 - Feb 6 with 1557 views | nordenblue |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 15:14 - Feb 6 by davidab2202 |
Do wonder as to whether the" possession based football" is being found out.
If Declan Rice can get dispossed on the edge of his own area then there is not a chance it won't happen at our level
Next point.Last Saturday Brighton had 64 per cent of the play and lose 7-0 .
Is the end of possession based football coming to an end ? |
It certainly needs to, the amount of goals conceded every single week even more so at the very very top is becoming hilarious, I'm sure it was Danny Murphy on TalkSport recently said something on the lines of "you're asking your least technically gifted player on the pitch to play the most important pass in the most critical part of the pitch, it's just insane"
That ball against Arsenal from John Stones to Akanji across his own box facing his own goal whilst a players breathing down his neck at 0.0 set the tone for the full game, leading to an already fragile side with a self made mountain to climb, its just plain weird. | | | |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 16:27 - Feb 6 with 1518 views | Daleaholic |
Leicester City 2015/16.
While all the other teams were obsessed with developing the 'Guardiola style of play', they were working differently and played over everyone else's heads, literally! Balls over the top to a deadly striker in Vardy.
It's not quite the same but I'm just using recent history to show if you sometimes go against the grain, you can be successful. But that's probably not in the coaching manual, is it?  | |
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| Why Do Managers See Different? on 17:24 - Feb 6 with 1416 views | D_Alien |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 16:27 - Feb 6 by Daleaholic |
Leicester City 2015/16.
While all the other teams were obsessed with developing the 'Guardiola style of play', they were working differently and played over everyone else's heads, literally! Balls over the top to a deadly striker in Vardy.
It's not quite the same but I'm just using recent history to show if you sometimes go against the grain, you can be successful. But that's probably not in the coaching manual, is it? |
Just to add, there's all the difference in the world between a targeted ball over the top to a striker hanging on the defenders shoulder to run onto (Vardy, or Mitchell against Yeovil) and just hoofing the ball expecting Mitchell to outmuscle his opponent with his back to goal (Oldham) |  |
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| Why Do Managers See Different? on 21:13 - Feb 6 with 1220 views | Dale69er |
"Possession based football"? More like Chuckle Brothers - to me to you, to me to... |  | | |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 02:06 - Feb 7 with 1032 views | Shun |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 16:27 - Feb 6 by Daleaholic |
Leicester City 2015/16.
While all the other teams were obsessed with developing the 'Guardiola style of play', they were working differently and played over everyone else's heads, literally! Balls over the top to a deadly striker in Vardy.
It's not quite the same but I'm just using recent history to show if you sometimes go against the grain, you can be successful. But that's probably not in the coaching manual, is it? |
Absolutely, and I suspect it’s one of the reasons Nottm Forest are doing so well this season. Someone mentioned the lack of possession they had against Brighton yet won 7-0. They’re doing exactly what you say - going against the grain, playing their own game. And there’s more than a touch of the old-fashioned about them. Two fast, direct wingers and a big target man up front! I bet their fans are loving it! |  | | |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 09:49 - Feb 7 with 808 views | Bainesy15 |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 12:25 - Feb 6 by Dalenet |
Or an Ollie Rathbone terrior.
I think most of us see the same thing with midfield. Gilmore is a strong lad with lots of experience. But against Yeovil in the first half he continually lost the ball, and the same for the whole game against Oldham. East can't do everything. And neither seem willing to take a shot when on the edge of the box.
As for Jim, I don't listen to his interviews anymore. I find it too baffling. I don't mind us being beaten by a better side, so long as we have done our best and been entertained for at least some of the game. There is so much potential ..... we only see it every third game. Its a good job we don't need to attract new fans. |
I think Gilmour is that terrier. At the front of a midfield three, nipping at people's heels - that's exactly how he played at the start of last season with East and Clayton, when he had the freedom to chase and press |  | | |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 10:32 - Feb 7 with 732 views | Nafelad |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 16:03 - Feb 6 by nordenblue |
It certainly needs to, the amount of goals conceded every single week even more so at the very very top is becoming hilarious, I'm sure it was Danny Murphy on TalkSport recently said something on the lines of "you're asking your least technically gifted player on the pitch to play the most important pass in the most critical part of the pitch, it's just insane"
That ball against Arsenal from John Stones to Akanji across his own box facing his own goal whilst a players breathing down his neck at 0.0 set the tone for the full game, leading to an already fragile side with a self made mountain to climb, its just plain weird. |
I think 'clearing it to Row Z' is still the best idea. |  |
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| Why Do Managers See Different? on 14:03 - Feb 7 with 504 views | wheniwasyourage |
I agree with you, but I think professional football people do see the game differently. I've lost track of the number of times opposing managers and pundits have praised our style of play and given Jim credit.
That said, like you, I think it’s clear within 5–10 minutes when a player is having an off day or when our tactic just isn’t working. If it were up to me, I’d have no hesitation in pulling a player off in the first half if they’re having a nightmare—like Rodney last night. Nothing personal, it’s just not your day. | | | |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 15:40 - Feb 7 with 395 views | tony_roch975 |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 09:49 - Feb 7 by Bainesy15 |
I think Gilmour is that terrier. At the front of a midfield three, nipping at people's heels - that's exactly how he played at the start of last season with East and Clayton, when he had the freedom to chase and press |
I agree that Gilmour is usually our most effective midfield tackler, although he was seriously off his game on Tuesday, but I can't recall us using 3 in midfield this season - McNulty used to select 2 out of Gilmour, Henry & East. Having said that it's a change I would have made on Tuesday night. | |
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| Why Do Managers See Different? on 16:32 - Feb 7 with 312 views | Bainesy15 |
| Why Do Managers See Different? on 15:40 - Feb 7 by tony_roch975 |
I agree that Gilmour is usually our most effective midfield tackler, although he was seriously off his game on Tuesday, but I can't recall us using 3 in midfield this season - McNulty used to select 2 out of Gilmour, Henry & East. Having said that it's a change I would have made on Tuesday night. |
No I don't think we have, really. For me, if it's going to be a two, it has to be East OR Gilmour alongside someone else... but we don't have anyone else to step in there, as I'm still not entirely sure of the type of midfielder Weston is. [Post edited 7 Feb 16:32]
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| Why Do Managers See Different? on 16:47 - Feb 7 with 262 views | rochedale |
This is a great thread! If you have possession then the other team can’t score. Players from a young age are now coached to play through the thirds, we did and often do that well, through the first 2 thirds, but often can’t create goal scoring opportunities in the final third, which was evident on Tuesday. They sat back and totally nullified us, so all that possession, certainly in the second half, was pointless. Alex Fergusson was the opposite, he pretty much always played a 442, with attacking wingers who got the ball in the box and often had 2 quality forwards to finish attacks off.
I do like the possession based play, but not sure it works always for us, when it does, it looks great, when it doesn’t, it’s so frustrating.
How I’d love to see a 442 with wingers and balls in to the box, I fear those days are long gone.
A manger will always defend the way his team plays, as ultimately, that’s due to him. |  |
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| Why Do Managers See Different? on 17:16 - Feb 7 with 205 views | davidab2202 |
An interesting story in today's press with regard to Pep's style of play where to be fair I feel the possession style of play originated. When questioned by coaches at a League Managers Association about his style of play he replied "Don't copy me, why would you copy me? I've got the best players.
Please note Big Jim | | | |
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