| At the right price. on 08:42 - Jun 12 with 7460 views | EllDale |
Being realistic it’s a matter of when he goes not if he does.
Like you say though let’s not settle for an “undisclosed fee” which turns out to be around £300k.
And don’t forget the add-ons! |  | |  |
| At the right price. on 10:31 - Jun 12 with 7268 views | DaleFan7 |
It's inevitable that he goes, I'm just hoping now we're in a stable financial position it gives us a better footing to demand a higher fee rather than just accepting that his sale will pay the electric bill for a couple of months until we can sell someone else. | | | |
| At the right price. on 12:43 - Jun 12 with 7048 views | Brierls |
| At the right price. on 08:42 - Jun 12 by EllDale |
Being realistic it’s a matter of when he goes not if he does.
Like you say though let’s not settle for an “undisclosed fee” which turns out to be around £300k.
And don’t forget the add-ons! |
£300K plus addons is probably about right, unfortunately. We're a National League club. That said, the more clubs interested, the better for us fee wise.
Nevett's next move is what could make us the serious £££. Even if he didn't make the grade at Premier League level, you'd easily be talking £5-£10 Million (probably more) for a promising but unproven centre half from a Premier League/top end Championship club. |  | | |
| At the right price. on 14:13 - Jun 12 with 6852 views | ChaffRAFC |
| At the right price. on 12:43 - Jun 12 by Brierls |
£300K plus addons is probably about right, unfortunately. We're a National League club. That said, the more clubs interested, the better for us fee wise.
Nevett's next move is what could make us the serious £££. Even if he didn't make the grade at Premier League level, you'd easily be talking £5-£10 Million (probably more) for a promising but unproven centre half from a Premier League/top end Championship club. |
We can't hold out for much more than about £300k at our level, players just don't go for more than that when you drop into non-league.
I think it's inevitable Nevett goes but he'll need replacing well. Without Nevett, we have Ebanks-Landell and Ferguson as centre half options, possibly Gordon too but I think we needed a centre half regardless of Nevett going, should he go, I think we need two. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| At the right price. on 14:17 - Jun 12 with 6835 views | Edindale |
| At the right price. on 14:13 - Jun 12 by ChaffRAFC |
We can't hold out for much more than about £300k at our level, players just don't go for more than that when you drop into non-league.
I think it's inevitable Nevett goes but he'll need replacing well. Without Nevett, we have Ebanks-Landell and Ferguson as centre half options, possibly Gordon too but I think we needed a centre half regardless of Nevett going, should he go, I think we need two. |
I would suggest that a realistic price may be around £500,000 which would make a big difference next season. Fully agree that the % on his next move is even more critical to our financial well being. | | | |
| At the right price. on 14:25 - Jun 12 with 6809 views | ChaffRAFC |
| At the right price. on 14:17 - Jun 12 by Edindale |
I would suggest that a realistic price may be around £500,000 which would make a big difference next season. Fully agree that the % on his next move is even more critical to our financial well being. |
Of course it would make a difference and it would be amazing to get that figure and think we would get that figure if we were an EFL club but we're not.
Not sure if Transfrmarket is reliable for fees but according that that, there's only ever been one transfer that's ever hit £500,000 out of the National League and that's Jack Taylor who joined Peterborough from Barnet and played nearly 40 games last season for Ipswich in the Championship.
George Nevett isn't anywhere near that standard or profile I don't think.
It would be brilliant to get that type of money for I think £300,000 plus whatever add-ons is much more realistic at our level. | |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| At the right price. on 15:43 - Jun 12 with 6601 views | Salegraham |
| At the right price. on 14:25 - Jun 12 by ChaffRAFC |
Of course it would make a difference and it would be amazing to get that figure and think we would get that figure if we were an EFL club but we're not.
Not sure if Transfrmarket is reliable for fees but according that that, there's only ever been one transfer that's ever hit £500,000 out of the National League and that's Jack Taylor who joined Peterborough from Barnet and played nearly 40 games last season for Ipswich in the Championship.
George Nevett isn't anywhere near that standard or profile I don't think.
It would be brilliant to get that type of money for I think £300,000 plus whatever add-ons is much more realistic at our level. |
Didn't a certain guy from Fleetwood go for a million !! | | | |
| At the right price. on 16:04 - Jun 12 with 6547 views | blackdogblue |
I hope he goes on to better things and if he did wish him all the best..
Recent departures of this level of interest have not all worked out sadly, take Luke & Dan Adshead for example…
Others like Morley, Rathbone & Tavares have found a decent level but not groundbreaking..
If he does go, use the money to get Hayes for me. |  |
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| At the right price. on 16:23 - Jun 12 with 6514 views | Drigdale |
Big Jim gets plenty of criticism on this forum and maybe in some cases it is justified.
However he has to get a lot of praise for the development of Nevitt and also having the courage to play him in the first place.
Personally if we get a sum in the region of £500,000 I think we will have done well. Obviously the add on clauses are where potentially the real money could be made. | | | |
| At the right price. on 17:05 - Jun 12 with 6402 views | jonahwhereru |
| At the right price. on 14:25 - Jun 12 by ChaffRAFC |
Of course it would make a difference and it would be amazing to get that figure and think we would get that figure if we were an EFL club but we're not.
Not sure if Transfrmarket is reliable for fees but according that that, there's only ever been one transfer that's ever hit £500,000 out of the National League and that's Jack Taylor who joined Peterborough from Barnet and played nearly 40 games last season for Ipswich in the Championship.
George Nevett isn't anywhere near that standard or profile I don't think.
It would be brilliant to get that type of money for I think £300,000 plus whatever add-ons is much more realistic at our level. |
Interesting comments. Providing more proof of how costly the relegation was. I am usually one of the realists about transfer valuations on here. However I am hopeful of at least 500k plus in this case. If there are seriously three Prem clubs interested and with the Ogden’s being nobody’s patsy when it comes to business and negotiation (even if they lack football nous) I expect them to be defiantly standing their ground in a manner this club has not been able to do for some time.
Plus he has the qualities clubs covet, comfortable with the ball at his feet, and with a great passing range and vision.
So 300k plus add ons then. Bloody Stockdale!!! [Post edited 12 Jun 17:25]
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| At the right price. on 17:12 - Jun 12 with 6385 views | 49thseason |
Nevett is 18, left footed, well over 6 feet tall, has a season of men's football under his belt and is an U19 Welsh international, Find me another one!
We need to stop it with the negative waves.. slap a £1m price on his head and include 10% of any future sales in the deal.. If he stays for another season he will only be worth more! If you start low expectations, you get low payments.
The money would be nice, but thankfully we are not now desperate, so there is no need to accept lowball offers. Lets not allow this lad to become another LeFondre or Lambert. New era.. new thinking! |  | | |
| At the right price. on 18:51 - Jun 12 with 6189 views | jonahwhereru |
| At the right price. on 17:12 - Jun 12 by 49thseason |
Nevett is 18, left footed, well over 6 feet tall, has a season of men's football under his belt and is an U19 Welsh international, Find me another one!
We need to stop it with the negative waves.. slap a £1m price on his head and include 10% of any future sales in the deal.. If he stays for another season he will only be worth more! If you start low expectations, you get low payments.
The money would be nice, but thankfully we are not now desperate, so there is no need to accept lowball offers. Lets not allow this lad to become another LeFondre or Lambert. New era.. new thinking! |
I like the cut of your jib 49th | | | |
| At the right price. on 20:04 - Jun 12 with 6034 views | 442Dale |
| At the right price. on 18:51 - Jun 12 by jonahwhereru |
I like the cut of your jib 49th |
Except Lambert and Le Fondre were sold under totally different circumstances and in both cases we made much more than the initial fees because of the add ons - which might have been less of the original fee was larger.. It’s all relative and it’s hard to compare the modern game with the past and what fees should be at our level now. 300-500k might be about right if the rest of the deal adds up.
You have faith in the current regime making the right decisions for the club and the player. |  |
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| At the right price. on 23:36 - Jun 12 with 5762 views | 49thseason |
| At the right price. on 20:04 - Jun 12 by 442Dale |
Except Lambert and Le Fondre were sold under totally different circumstances and in both cases we made much more than the initial fees because of the add ons - which might have been less of the original fee was larger.. It’s all relative and it’s hard to compare the modern game with the past and what fees should be at our level now. 300-500k might be about right if the rest of the deal adds up.
You have faith in the current regime making the right decisions for the club and the player. |
A million in the hand is better than ....you get the gist. We supposedly got £1m for Matheson but how much of that did we actually collect? Add-ons are the riskiest bit for the selling club and only work in a small % of sales. A big club can put add-ons into a deal with very little risk... if the player becomes a big star, the add-on is pocket money to them if he doesn't make the grade no one benefits.
As we have recently proved, cash is King, put the add-ons in the deal by all means but the upfront payment is what actually goes into the bank. Where is the harm in asking for £1m or more? Until someone says no, you might as well ask for big money. If they do say no, at least you are negotiating down from a big figure and might end up with £750k+. Sometimes you have to give the buyer a deal he can go back to his directors with.. " they wanted a mill, I got them down to £750k"... sounds
like a win..... And interestingly, we might get into a bidding war for him if there are 3 or 4 clubs interested, even more reason not to undersell him. | | | |
| At the right price. on 13:29 - Jun 13 with 5308 views | 442Dale |
I’m sure we have asked for more money on initial fees down the years, and on occasion we should have got more at that stage. Balancing that against the fact that add-ons will always be the most lucrative part of the deal for a club like us is the point. And we have, more often than not, got that right. | |
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| At the right price. on 13:35 - Jun 13 with 5301 views | pioneer |
| At the right price. on 13:29 - Jun 13 by 442Dale |
I’m sure we have asked for more money on initial fees down the years, and on occasion we should have got more at that stage. Balancing that against the fact that add-ons will always be the most lucrative part of the deal for a club like us is the point. And we have, more often than not, got that right. |
No its about the big clubs offloading risk of players not working out. If they work out great…if they dont, no problem they dont have to cough up the add ons.
The risk of a player not working out is left entirely with the selling club. | | | |
| At the right price. on 15:20 - Jun 13 with 5093 views | 442Dale |
| At the right price. on 13:35 - Jun 13 by pioneer |
No its about the big clubs offloading risk of players not working out. If they work out great…if they dont, no problem they dont have to cough up the add ons.
The risk of a player not working out is left entirely with the selling club. |
The fact remains that as a club, Dale have always benefitted more from add-ons. We’d have been in financial trouble a lot earlier if we hadn’t had that model in place. It worked.
There are examples of some not coming to fruition of course (Matheson, Adshead), but imagine if we’d insisted on 500k from Bristol Rovers and they agreed but with no sell on clause.
Is a 750k today with nothing in the future better than 300k today and a possible future 2.5 million ? All about the details of each deal. | |
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| At the right price. on 16:02 - Jun 13 with 4975 views | 100notout |
| At the right price. on 15:20 - Jun 13 by 442Dale |
The fact remains that as a club, Dale have always benefitted more from add-ons. We’d have been in financial trouble a lot earlier if we hadn’t had that model in place. It worked.
There are examples of some not coming to fruition of course (Matheson, Adshead), but imagine if we’d insisted on 500k from Bristol Rovers and they agreed but with no sell on clause.
Is a 750k today with nothing in the future better than 300k today and a possible future 2.5 million ? All about the details of each deal. |
"We’d have been in financial trouble a lot earlier if we hadn’t had that model in place."
You don't know that.- If we had got a much higher fee in the first place we might not have had a cashflow problem.
The thing with add-ons is that they are a gamble - some you win some you lose | |
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| At the right price. on 18:21 - Jun 13 with 4791 views | 442Dale |
| At the right price. on 16:02 - Jun 13 by 100notout |
"We’d have been in financial trouble a lot earlier if we hadn’t had that model in place."
You don't know that.- If we had got a much higher fee in the first place we might not have had a cashflow problem.
The thing with add-ons is that they are a gamble - some you win some you lose |
Going off the fact that the Dunphy and Parkin/Hill era when we were seen as a well run lower league club with a model where producing and improving players to sell and benefit long term from was out model. Lambert/ALF/Murray/Hogan/Dawson etc all brought in a total running into millions after they moved over a longer period of time. Of course we don’t know for certain, but it was a model we all accepted worked. Even if we’d have liked bigger initial fees. | |
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| At the right price. on 22:28 - Jun 13 with 4499 views | 49thseason |
It would be interesting to see the fine print in these add-on deals, I imagine most of it would be loaded onto a percentage of any sell-on profits, say 10% and maybe a smaller amout for say 50 first team appearances perhaps £5-10k. I can't see that Rochdale would receive another payment when the 3rd club sells to a 4th club or the 4th sells to a 5th.
We got £750k for Hogan from Brentford, they sold him to Villa for a rumoured £12- 15m. I dont think we got another million+ out of that deal, so were there any add ons in that deal or was it just the initial fee??
Forest sold Holt to Shrewsbury for £170k ( a loss) so we got nothing extra there.
Bristol Rovers sold Lambert to Soton for £1m so maybe we got 10% of 800k profit..another 80k. Hogan and Dawson look like the only players we have sold where the add ons have actually amounted to much more than £100k but Holt Lambert, Buckley, ALF, Murray, probably didnt.
The reason we had a reputation for being well run was that we couldn't afford to be in debt. Probably because no one would lend us any money any way we managed OK in L1 when big away followings came to Rochdale, we got some great cup ties and we kept a tight rein on the outgoings. The problems started when there were no crowds and the cash started to run out, Bottom spending shitloads on stuff we didnt need like 100s of gallons of sanitzer, signs, cashless turnstiles, and the pitch didnt help the cash situation either. | | | |
| At the right price. on 07:48 - Jun 14 with 4298 views | 442Dale |
We got percentages of anything above the original fee. So if the buying club sold for more than they bought a player from Dale then we got that percentage. If there was then a sell on in the next deal (Lambert going from Southampton to Liverpool) we got a percentage of a percentage.
That’s why the deals can be very lucrative above an original fee.
Out of interest where are the percentage figures for the Lambert and Hogan deals coming from? Is anyone actually sure how much we made on any of the transfers? [Post edited 14 Jun 7:57]
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| At the right price. on 09:26 - Jun 14 with 4165 views | D_Alien |
Seems like something of a false argument, the up-front fee v. add-ons issue
Why not both?
So a fee of £300k with 10% of a resale of £10m would yield £970k
A fee of £500k would yield £950k, a fee of £1m would yield £900k
Whilst the add-on difference isn't huge, it shouldn't be a case of either / or
The main change now is whether we need to sell to survive. If not, no reason to grab at a lower up front fee |  |
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| At the right price. on 12:40 - Jun 17 with 3295 views | ChaffRAFC |
Chris Conn-Clarke, Altrincham's top goalscorer with 22 goals last season looks set to sign for Peterborough United for £350,000 plus add-ons.
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| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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