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Internal combustion cars due to be phased out by 2030. I'm on the cusp of needing a new car - but I think it could be a calamity. Lack of charging, electric bikes bursting into flames, a major fire on a car ferry off Holland possibly due to electric car fire. I don't trust our govt. to successfully bring about this huge change.
Yearly temperature compared to the twentieth-century average (red bars mean warmer than average, blue bars mean colder than average) from 1850–2022 and atmospheric carbon dioxide amounts (gray line): 1850-1958 from IAC, 1959-2019 from NOAA ESRL. Original graph by Dr. Howard Diamond (NOAA ARL), and adapted by NOAA Climate.gov.
The evidence you want to believe is there to back up your stance
The evidence I want to believe is there supporting where I’m coming from.
However, unlike those in the Climate Brainwashing Camp I can see merit in some of the evidence I am absolutely for recycling, waste reduction and efficiency in reason. A personal crusade of mine would be to kick the living out of fly tippers, unlicensed waste dumpers and all who Chuck shite in the sea / rivers etc
Anyone who believes the rhetoric for ULEZ is a crackpot in my book; likewise those who insist cars should all be electric
I ask this one all the time: How many diesel turbo X5’s did the Romans roll around in after they conquered GB? Must’ve been hundreds and thousands of em How else do you account for the climate shift back then which meant that Middlesbrough and Doncaster were used by the Romans as vineyards?????? Either that or… shock horror ….. the worlds climate is going through an ever changing cycle and progress
I don't see how your stance that it's not ok to pollute the land or sea sits side by side with anti-ULEZ and anti-electric cars. It seems like you're saying it's not ok to pollute the land and sea but it's fine to pollute the air.
I assume that there's no argument that the emissions from standard cars are unhealthy after all I doubt anyone's looking at an exhaust pipe and thinking I'll stick my head down there and breath that in for a couple of hours. I think there's substantial evidence to back up air pollution being bad and mapping showing concentrations of particulats around busy roads.
The main objection appears to be that there's a cost to polluting under ulez which people don't like but it's perfectly acceptable to use cost as a justification for getting a car that emits more pollution. So if cost is a reason not to have a certain car then absolutely cost should be a viable tool to discourage emissions.
If you had excess household waste to get rid of you'd either spend the time to do it yourself or pay someone licensed to dispose of it properly, not go for the cheapest price which is likely to be someone who's going to fly tip it down the nearest country lane. Cost is a factor in these decisions too, so I can't see the difference myself.
I don't see how your stance that it's not ok to pollute the land or sea sits side by side with anti-ULEZ and anti-electric cars. It seems like you're saying it's not ok to pollute the land and sea but it's fine to pollute the air.
I assume that there's no argument that the emissions from standard cars are unhealthy after all I doubt anyone's looking at an exhaust pipe and thinking I'll stick my head down there and breath that in for a couple of hours. I think there's substantial evidence to back up air pollution being bad and mapping showing concentrations of particulats around busy roads.
The main objection appears to be that there's a cost to polluting under ulez which people don't like but it's perfectly acceptable to use cost as a justification for getting a car that emits more pollution. So if cost is a reason not to have a certain car then absolutely cost should be a viable tool to discourage emissions.
If you had excess household waste to get rid of you'd either spend the time to do it yourself or pay someone licensed to dispose of it properly, not go for the cheapest price which is likely to be someone who's going to fly tip it down the nearest country lane. Cost is a factor in these decisions too, so I can't see the difference myself.
Cars are cleaner than they’ve ever been - no problem if you want to go electric but there are plenty of low polluting cars
If Sadi Khunt and all the chest clutchers were serious about 4,000 Londoners dying due to car pollution a year then their stance is odd isn’t it? Surely you would ban cars full stop that don’t comply? Instead this bastard murderers in their deadly vehicles are simply given the option of paying £12.50 a day to kill people. It’s bollox and if you can’t see the shift towards further charge and control then that’s your privilege and look out.
There’s a whole industry being fed by this lie and it’s the virtuous who are shouting loudest. I do detect people are finally pushing back a bit and maybe questioning what we’re being fed by the MSM and those in control
We’ll see
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
Yearly temperature compared to the twentieth-century average (red bars mean warmer than average, blue bars mean colder than average) from 1850–2022 and atmospheric carbon dioxide amounts (gray line): 1850-1958 from IAC, 1959-2019 from NOAA ESRL. Original graph by Dr. Howard Diamond (NOAA ARL), and adapted by NOAA Climate.gov.
I've always wondered what effect the Second World War and stuff being blown up around the world on a daily basis would have had on the climate. This graph gives a pretty good indication given the spike upwards around the 1939-1945 time.
We don't have a Clean Air Zone in Leicester, but living in the city and being a runner it was noticeable how much clearer the air quality was during the Covid shutdowns in 2020, and how much its gone backwards since the world opened up again.
I'd be up for getting an electric car but I don't want to pay anything close to current car prices for that shit and I need to often travel the 220 miles from home to London and back.
Also, I don't need that shit exploding in my driveway for no reason.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
The evidence you want to believe is there to back up your stance
The evidence I want to believe is there supporting where I’m coming from.
However, unlike those in the Climate Brainwashing Camp I can see merit in some of the evidence I am absolutely for recycling, waste reduction and efficiency in reason. A personal crusade of mine would be to kick the living out of fly tippers, unlicensed waste dumpers and all who Chuck shite in the sea / rivers etc
Anyone who believes the rhetoric for ULEZ is a crackpot in my book; likewise those who insist cars should all be electric
I ask this one all the time: How many diesel turbo X5’s did the Romans roll around in after they conquered GB? Must’ve been hundreds and thousands of em How else do you account for the climate shift back then which meant that Middlesbrough and Doncaster were used by the Romans as vineyards?????? Either that or… shock horror ….. the worlds climate is going through an ever changing cycle and progress
Nobody would try to deny that the planet's climate has gone through changes, continuously. But that change has always be due to a cause. Be those, solar activity; alterations in the Earth's orbit, magnetic field or angle of tilt, just off the top of my head.
Overwhelming evidence points to the current changes being caused by the massive and sudden re-release of carbon, as CO2, stored in fossil form for millions of years, over the last 200 years or so.
You don't seem to have a difficulty in accepting there is a change occurring, but you appear to want to dismiss the idea that we could have, or can now, try to do something to prevent or ameliorate it.
We are at the beginning of something really difficult.
I'd be up for getting an electric car but I don't want to pay anything close to current car prices for that shit and I need to often travel the 220 miles from home to London and back.
Also, I don't need that shit exploding in my driveway for no reason.
I wouldn't buy an EV right now... the technology is moving so quickly that an electric car in 4-5 year time will be a lot more advanced than today. So the MG4 that I am leasing today (entry level car is 26K to buy) is NOT the future. Its simply not good enough yet.
Lots of people knocking EV's on the tinternet and to be honest (as of today) they have a good argument.
So what needs to be done...
* Increase the range of the bigger EV's to better than diesel cars. * Make batteries recondition-able (not sure that's a word 🙂). * Produce a no frills, small EV (Fiesta size) that is properly affordable.
I saw something on the tinternet about a few boys and girls who used to work for SAAB. They have started up an EV company and reckon they can get around 620 miles on a full charge for their prototype car. Also Toyota have a new battery design in development that they are convinced will do North of 900 miles!
One big advantage that EV's have over conventional cars is the ability to re-fuel at home... increase the range and you can cut out most pit stops (apart from really long journeys) . Having to factor in a motorway re-charge is a total lottery at the moment and can be quite expensive too.
Bio-fuels could be interesting??? Although that's a whole different set of logistical problems re - what needs to be grown to make the fuel and how much it costs to produce that fuel???
I really don't get the hydrogen fuel thing??? It would appear to tick all the boxes and yet despite having been around for donkeys years just has not caught on... Where's your nearest petrol station selling hydrogen? Mine is around 15 miles awayI have no idea why.?
Maybe the future will be a mix of all 3 technologies on the road, and then everyone will be happy.
China working harder on renewables? Also on opening 2 new coal fired power stations each week. While we cripple our economy with the costs of net zero they are having a laugh at our expense.
China's use of coal is absolutely a big issue because they burn half the world's coal. However, the rest of the world has effectively outsourced its manufacturing to China, so that is misleading.
However, they now have more solar electricity generating capacity than the rest of the world combined and also have the world's highest wind energy capability.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
The evidence you want to believe is there to back up your stance
The evidence I want to believe is there supporting where I’m coming from.
However, unlike those in the Climate Brainwashing Camp I can see merit in some of the evidence I am absolutely for recycling, waste reduction and efficiency in reason. A personal crusade of mine would be to kick the living out of fly tippers, unlicensed waste dumpers and all who Chuck shite in the sea / rivers etc
Anyone who believes the rhetoric for ULEZ is a crackpot in my book; likewise those who insist cars should all be electric
I ask this one all the time: How many diesel turbo X5’s did the Romans roll around in after they conquered GB? Must’ve been hundreds and thousands of em How else do you account for the climate shift back then which meant that Middlesbrough and Doncaster were used by the Romans as vineyards?????? Either that or… shock horror ….. the worlds climate is going through an ever changing cycle and progress
"How else do you account for the climate shift back then which meant that Middlesbrough and Doncaster were used by the Romans as vineyards??????"
You have to remember that this is all about *global* temperatures. What was happening in England at a certain period of time does not necessarily reflect the global picture.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
China's use of coal is absolutely a big issue because they burn half the world's coal. However, the rest of the world has effectively outsourced its manufacturing to China, so that is misleading.
However, they now have more solar electricity generating capacity than the rest of the world combined and also have the world's highest wind energy capability.
Two points, tried to make earlier. But much more clearly put. Well done R
Me too. And I live in rural Northern Ireland and rely on my ICE car. EV's are just more virtue signalling from Cosmopolitan lefty types. When the whole world agrees to change to alternative energy, then I will listen. Until then, you will have to prize the car keys out of my cold dead hands.
Your post is unfortunately an example of the tragedy of the commons. It's what did for Easter Island.
"To exercise voluntary restraint is not a rational choice for any one individual - if he did, the others would merely supplant him - yet the predictable result is a tragedy for all".
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
I've been electric for nearly 2 years. Range is approx 250 miles if driven sensibly and I have a home charger; so works for me.
also have home power with Octopus who do a really good deal for overnight usage as they have surplus at that time.
Very rarely I charge away form home, and even rarer it can be a bit of a PITA. Yesterday I had to do a 150 round trip in the morning and then a 140 round trip in the evening; so i needed to stop for 20 minutes to use a 'super charger' at 50kw to give it a boost.
for people that do realyl big journeys it might still present issues but i'm getting along fine.
the main reason for the switch was that i lease via my business and my previous vehicle cost me a fortune in BIK which this one is 2% and the business pays for the electricity too so I save approx £500 per month overall.
for private buyers i'm not convinced that the maths stack up yet, particularly for low mileage drivers.
oh, also dodge ULEZ and congestion charge and can park in Westminster and only pay a nominal 10 minutes per session.
I wouldn't buy an EV right now... the technology is moving so quickly that an electric car in 4-5 year time will be a lot more advanced than today. So the MG4 that I am leasing today (entry level car is 26K to buy) is NOT the future. Its simply not good enough yet.
Lots of people knocking EV's on the tinternet and to be honest (as of today) they have a good argument.
So what needs to be done...
* Increase the range of the bigger EV's to better than diesel cars. * Make batteries recondition-able (not sure that's a word 🙂). * Produce a no frills, small EV (Fiesta size) that is properly affordable.
I saw something on the tinternet about a few boys and girls who used to work for SAAB. They have started up an EV company and reckon they can get around 620 miles on a full charge for their prototype car. Also Toyota have a new battery design in development that they are convinced will do North of 900 miles!
One big advantage that EV's have over conventional cars is the ability to re-fuel at home... increase the range and you can cut out most pit stops (apart from really long journeys) . Having to factor in a motorway re-charge is a total lottery at the moment and can be quite expensive too.
Bio-fuels could be interesting??? Although that's a whole different set of logistical problems re - what needs to be grown to make the fuel and how much it costs to produce that fuel???
I really don't get the hydrogen fuel thing??? It would appear to tick all the boxes and yet despite having been around for donkeys years just has not caught on... Where's your nearest petrol station selling hydrogen? Mine is around 15 miles awayI have no idea why.?
Maybe the future will be a mix of all 3 technologies on the road, and then everyone will be happy.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 14:29]
Battery recycling is already happening. 280 batteries from old Nissan Leafs (or should that be Leaves?) provide electricity storage at Ajax' stadium. BMW takes back all used batteries and Renault promoted the way Megane Electric batteries can be used for energy storage when it launched the vehicle.
The European Union currently requires recycling of at least 50% of high-voltage batteries.
Bio-fuel doesn't scale up well, unfortunately, because if you grow crops for fuel specifically, you take up a lot of land which could be used to provide food. Using agricultural waste works well, though.
In general, there is already a lot of recycling of lithium ion batteries. Old batteries from laptops and phones are often used in power banks.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
An evaluation of 20mph zones in London, carried out by Imperial College, showed slowing traffic had no net negative impact on exhaust emissions. However, in 20mph zones vehicles moved more smoothly, with fewer accelerations and decelerations, than in 30mph zones. This smoother driving style reduces particulate emissions from tyre and brake wear - which still represents a significant cause of air pollution from zero-emission vehicles.
Shame no-one seems quite so hot of private planes, plane journeys within the country and PL squads taking a plane from London to Luton or Norwich.
If there is going to be action on the environment it needs to be a blanket approach.
If you're commenting on this thread, then obviously no one is considering aviation.
However, you're absolutely right to point out private jets in the context of the climate emergency. A report last year said: ...private aircraft still emit more than 33m tonnes of greenhouse gases, more than the country of Denmark … they are five to 14 times more polluting than commercial planes, per passenger, and 50 times more polluting than trains. Plenty of organisations and campaigners are raising this issue such as the Green party who have called for the introduction of a £1,000 per person “super tax” on all travellers in private jets. Not a bad start but more would be needed to deter super rich barstewards like the bloody prime minister.
As for flights within a country, you're also right to point that out. Given this existential crisis, these should be restricted to absolutely necessary journeys only.
As a home owner in Andalusia Spain, and witness to several forest fires over the years in this region, wildfires and started by humans. Either by Arson, wild campers, discarded glass or a in the case of the one we had last year an illegal bonfire. We always have hot summers and the forest / grass is always tinderbox dry at this time of year. I have never ever read a report of a forest or grassland instantaneously combust! British media are good on reporting the fires but don't report on the causes, just a constant agenda
People need to act responsibly and do their utmost to avoid starting wildfires, but:
- Lightning strikes will cause wildfires so the issue is not just our carelessness or stupidity
- Climate change is making the weather conditions needed for wildfires to spread more likely. Extreme and long-lasting heat draws more and more moisture out of the ground and vegetation.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
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