| EGM on 10:30 - Jul 27 with 3385 views | dawlishdale |
The whole situation has once again divided the already threadbare fanbase. Surely SG & RK should know better than this if they are worthy to run a football club?
A carefully worded and informative statement to shareholders issued before any public announcement would probably have answered many questions . To rely on a fans forum a few days before the season starts is amateurish at best, and will completely undermine Jim's attempts to hit the new campaign with a positive feeling in the camp.
I remain undecided purely down to a lack of clarity on exactly what is proposed. And whilst I understand that voting against the proposal could be seriously damaging to the future of the club, I also recognise that voting in favour of it might also be unwise.
So come on SG & RK. Give us the missing information. You are damaging your reputation with the fanbase by withholding it from us. |  | |  |
| EGM on 10:33 - Jul 27 with 3371 views | James1980 |
It seems that for some the reputations of person(s) in power are utterly irretrievable. | |
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| EGM on 10:44 - Jul 27 with 3314 views | Trev |
If SG really thinks this is the best way forward for the club, and he has nothing to hide, he needs to give us more information, quickly. The proposal is at risk of being turned down due to the way he is approaching it.
Question - Would you fight as hard to keep a football club in existence if you knew that you'd get your life savings back if they went into liquidation? | | | |
| EGM on 10:48 - Jul 27 with 3300 views | samueloneils |
| EGM on 10:33 - Jul 27 by James1980 |
It seems that for some the reputations of person(s) in power are utterly irretrievable. |
I agree the Directors need to explain the urgency of the funding.
But you must see that stating that the money has run out will not help Jim McN in his effort to build morale in the changing room.
Also , without using the exact words, I think they have made it abundantly clear that the Club is skint.
The very people who are providing a solution (Their own money!!!!!) are the ones who you are prepared to turn down.
I would love to know your own short-term solution. | | | |
| EGM on 10:59 - Jul 27 with 3269 views | HullDale |
On the 'Community Asset Fund' that has been referenced a few times.
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/07/community-ownership-fund-application/
"It had been our intention to announce this in next week’s newsletter, but given that it has been referenced on the Club’s website this week, it is only right to announce the details now."
It sounds like the club announced it without first consulting / agreeing with the trust. |  | | |
| EGM on 11:15 - Jul 27 with 3196 views | D_Alien |
| EGM on 10:59 - Jul 27 by HullDale |
On the 'Community Asset Fund' that has been referenced a few times.
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/07/community-ownership-fund-application/
"It had been our intention to announce this in next week’s newsletter, but given that it has been referenced on the Club’s website this week, it is only right to announce the details now."
It sounds like the club announced it without first consulting / agreeing with the trust. |
Edited: missed HD's further clarification, i.e. it's the Dale Trust not Community Trust
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 11:44]
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| EGM on 11:35 - Jul 27 with 3122 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| EGM on 10:33 - Jul 27 by James1980 |
It seems that for some the reputations of person(s) in power are utterly irretrievable. |
IF that’s the case then it is solely down to the actions (or inactions) of those individuals. Nothing else. |  | | |
| EGM on 11:37 - Jul 27 with 3100 views | James1980 |
| EGM on 10:48 - Jul 27 by samueloneils |
I agree the Directors need to explain the urgency of the funding.
But you must see that stating that the money has run out will not help Jim McN in his effort to build morale in the changing room.
Also , without using the exact words, I think they have made it abundantly clear that the Club is skint.
The very people who are providing a solution (Their own money!!!!!) are the ones who you are prepared to turn down.
I would love to know your own short-term solution. |
Sorry I don't have one. But also sorry if it has come across that I think reputations of certain people have been damaged beyond repair. | |
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| EGM on 13:20 - Jul 27 with 2855 views | 49thseason |
If the club goes bust and the ground is sold off, all shareholders stand to get their money back. There are just short of a million shares, if the ground is worth upwards of £3m, shareholders could get £3+ per share. Dont blame the Board they had to buy £25k of shares to become Directors. They also bought back the MH shares that the likes of Bottomley and other Directors sold. Now 2 Directors are proposing to put more money in on the basis of a loan secured against the bround. Clearly our situation is not a good one. So if anyone has a better plan, this would be a good time to let us all know because if this offer is turned down, the alternatives dont look good.
Clearly the club is stuggling, outgoings are greater than income, investors are hard to find, banks and the like want collateral, no one needs a crystal ball to see where this ends unless we find a level where we can balance the books. |  | | |
| EGM on 13:28 - Jul 27 with 2819 views | Crede_Sign0 |
| EGM on 10:59 - Jul 27 by HullDale |
On the 'Community Asset Fund' that has been referenced a few times.
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/07/community-ownership-fund-application/
"It had been our intention to announce this in next week’s newsletter, but given that it has been referenced on the Club’s website this week, it is only right to announce the details now."
It sounds like the club announced it without first consulting / agreeing with the trust. |
Thank you for sharing this
Do you know whether it’s possible to see the application that was made? | | | |
| EGM on 13:35 - Jul 27 with 2791 views | Dalenet |
| EGM on 13:20 - Jul 27 by 49thseason |
If the club goes bust and the ground is sold off, all shareholders stand to get their money back. There are just short of a million shares, if the ground is worth upwards of £3m, shareholders could get £3+ per share. Dont blame the Board they had to buy £25k of shares to become Directors. They also bought back the MH shares that the likes of Bottomley and other Directors sold. Now 2 Directors are proposing to put more money in on the basis of a loan secured against the bround. Clearly our situation is not a good one. So if anyone has a better plan, this would be a good time to let us all know because if this offer is turned down, the alternatives dont look good.
Clearly the club is stuggling, outgoings are greater than income, investors are hard to find, banks and the like want collateral, no one needs a crystal ball to see where this ends unless we find a level where we can balance the books. |
I agree with the sentiment. The ground is only worth what a developer would pay - so probably less than £3m. From which other creditors and costs would need to be paid. Realistically not everybody would get their money back.
Anyhow, back to the present. I completely understand why both directors need something as collateral or they lose everything. But we originally said we wanted an investor to bring cash into the club to build up facilities and cover losses (training ground etc). Now we are saying the directors will need to lend the club money to cover imminent losses. So in effect, just like the last share issue, the loans/investments are for short term losses. We have supposedly cut our budgets due to relegation. So how big is the expected cashflow loss, when will it crystalise and what happens in 2024 if revenue hasn't grown? We are running out of road here.
Yet if you listen to the COOs interview, he was talking about the possibility of training facilities on land they had identified and that they hadn't had to cut the budgets by too much despite relegation. Something doesn't add up. And will Richard and Simon be adding their current shareholder into the collateral deal or just new loan money? I don't know and haven't yet got an EGM pack (the details could be in there). | | | |
| EGM on 13:44 - Jul 27 with 2766 views | KnavesmireBob |
Whatever comes of the Dale Trust's application, it's a brilliantly thought out project. Whoever researched it and put the application together deserves all the credit in the world.
Big picture for me is these issues always serve to remind just what a decent fanbase we are. I actually think we're handling the diversity of opinion on this with our usual class and respect for one another. We always do. Which is why I'm confident that whichever way this plays out we'll always be here, and our shared values will ensure we'll always be reet. | | | |
| EGM on 13:44 - Jul 27 with 2766 views | judd |
| EGM on 13:35 - Jul 27 by Dalenet |
I agree with the sentiment. The ground is only worth what a developer would pay - so probably less than £3m. From which other creditors and costs would need to be paid. Realistically not everybody would get their money back.
Anyhow, back to the present. I completely understand why both directors need something as collateral or they lose everything. But we originally said we wanted an investor to bring cash into the club to build up facilities and cover losses (training ground etc). Now we are saying the directors will need to lend the club money to cover imminent losses. So in effect, just like the last share issue, the loans/investments are for short term losses. We have supposedly cut our budgets due to relegation. So how big is the expected cashflow loss, when will it crystalise and what happens in 2024 if revenue hasn't grown? We are running out of road here.
Yet if you listen to the COOs interview, he was talking about the possibility of training facilities on land they had identified and that they hadn't had to cut the budgets by too much despite relegation. Something doesn't add up. And will Richard and Simon be adding their current shareholder into the collateral deal or just new loan money? I don't know and haven't yet got an EGM pack (the details could be in there). |
No detail beyond what was originally announced. |  |
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| EGM on 13:46 - Jul 27 with 2764 views | Peaky |
| EGM on 13:20 - Jul 27 by 49thseason |
If the club goes bust and the ground is sold off, all shareholders stand to get their money back. There are just short of a million shares, if the ground is worth upwards of £3m, shareholders could get £3+ per share. Dont blame the Board they had to buy £25k of shares to become Directors. They also bought back the MH shares that the likes of Bottomley and other Directors sold. Now 2 Directors are proposing to put more money in on the basis of a loan secured against the bround. Clearly our situation is not a good one. So if anyone has a better plan, this would be a good time to let us all know because if this offer is turned down, the alternatives dont look good.
Clearly the club is stuggling, outgoings are greater than income, investors are hard to find, banks and the like want collateral, no one needs a crystal ball to see where this ends unless we find a level where we can balance the books. |
Both heartfelt and measured responses here from everyone. A very split argument for and against which has put the dale faithful in a real predicament. Rational questions about running costs, current financial position and ‘what’s in it for the BoD” are totally reasonable. The next stage of this journey is without doubt troublesome and a calm, methodical decision has to be made.
Dale fans are an intelligent bunch. Taking the emotional element aside and focusing on the business side, any company in the world would be out of their mind to make a decision without all the facts being laid on the table. It’s been done to death already in this thread, what many of us are thinking on both sides of the argument. What comes next will probably be another history defining decision.
One thing I am certain of is that you would have to be insanely smart to pull the wool over the fans who saved the club from the MH takeover (you known who you are). I will be waiting for a consensus view once the facts have been laid bare. | | | |
| EGM on 14:04 - Jul 27 with 2701 views | D_Alien |
| EGM on 13:44 - Jul 27 by judd |
No detail beyond what was originally announced. |
Would you regard it as fair to have the relevant detail made available ahead of the meeting, rather than having shareholders trying to make an assessment in quick order on the night? | |
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| EGM on 14:11 - Jul 27 with 2661 views | James1980 |
What percentage/number of shares are needed to put forward a resolution to be voted for at an EGM? | |
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| EGM on 14:12 - Jul 27 with 2658 views | judd |
| EGM on 14:04 - Jul 27 by D_Alien |
Would you regard it as fair to have the relevant detail made available ahead of the meeting, rather than having shareholders trying to make an assessment in quick order on the night? |
Not fair nor professional, so I would hope the fans forum produces the required detail.
I still think we have no other options to fund a short term cash flow issue. | |
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| EGM on 14:59 - Jul 27 with 2552 views | RespectTheChemistry |
| EGM on 13:20 - Jul 27 by 49thseason |
If the club goes bust and the ground is sold off, all shareholders stand to get their money back. There are just short of a million shares, if the ground is worth upwards of £3m, shareholders could get £3+ per share. Dont blame the Board they had to buy £25k of shares to become Directors. They also bought back the MH shares that the likes of Bottomley and other Directors sold. Now 2 Directors are proposing to put more money in on the basis of a loan secured against the bround. Clearly our situation is not a good one. So if anyone has a better plan, this would be a good time to let us all know because if this offer is turned down, the alternatives dont look good.
Clearly the club is stuggling, outgoings are greater than income, investors are hard to find, banks and the like want collateral, no one needs a crystal ball to see where this ends unless we find a level where we can balance the books. |
If you can cite a company liquidation in which all the shareholders received the nominal capital value of their shares, I would very much like to hear about it! | | | |
| EGM on 15:13 - Jul 27 with 2481 views | Trev |
| EGM on 14:12 - Jul 27 by judd |
Not fair nor professional, so I would hope the fans forum produces the required detail.
I still think we have no other options to fund a short term cash flow issue. |
Are you certain it's a short term cash flow issue? | | | |
| EGM on 15:29 - Jul 27 with 2432 views | judd |
| EGM on 15:13 - Jul 27 by Trev |
Are you certain it's a short term cash flow issue? |
That's what Simon's statement said.
"It is there with the motivation of relieving immediate cash flow pressures for a period of time..." | |
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| EGM on 15:54 - Jul 27 with 2368 views | 49thseason |
| EGM on 14:59 - Jul 27 by RespectTheChemistry |
If you can cite a company liquidation in which all the shareholders received the nominal capital value of their shares, I would very much like to hear about it! |
Its entirely possible to go into voluntary liquidation whilst the company still has assets. not only is there the ground to sell, but there is all the equipment, seats, etc. etc. Obviously if the clubs investors continue to place a lien on the clubs major asset, the ground, its less likely that there would be much left for shareholders, we are not Bury, and we should not get into a situation where we can't pay invoices or wages.
Perhaps the time is approaching where the Trust will have to take on more of the heavy lifting i.e. running the lotteries, selling merchandise, running the bars etc. using volunteers just as they did back in the old Fighting Fund days. By pouring all the money made back into the club via share purchases, the Trust voice would become louder and eventually dominant | | | |
| EGM on 17:41 - Jul 27 with 2131 views | CockneyDale |
Can we nominate Trust as proxy? Do I need to notify them first? |  | | |
| EGM on 17:56 - Jul 27 with 2084 views | James1980 |
| EGM on 17:41 - Jul 27 by CockneyDale |
Can we nominate Trust as proxy? Do I need to notify them first? |
Yes you can, and not sure.
Could we have a thread started then pinned and locked detailing how to make the trust your proxy please. | |
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| EGM on 18:34 - Jul 27 with 1995 views | judd |
| EGM on 17:41 - Jul 27 by CockneyDale |
Can we nominate Trust as proxy? Do I need to notify them first? |
Complete the proxy form sent with your EGM pack and return to George Delves, and copy to info@daletrust.co.uk | |
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| EGM on 18:36 - Jul 27 with 1988 views | electricblue |
I suppose the cash flow problem will scupper any more signings! |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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