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Well lets hope the SNP get their way then if its so much better on the other side.......whilst I dont want a break up, I have had and seen enough that I now feel, let them leave and suffer accordingly. And that little horrid leader of the SNP gets it done.
Once on a lifetime vote eh.
Better Together is what I said, how's that construed to have you saying if the grass is greener f#ck off? If you'd prefer Scotland did have independence you should just say that as its a fairer position to take. The majority of Scotland voted for it so Scotland at that moment did think Better Together and being in the UK was preferable so saying they all think they'd be better off independent is factually incorrect and does the argument for keeping the union more harm than good. I think a 2nd referendum will do loads of harm to society as the last one is still causing ill feeling and it will stoke it all up worse again. I live in a 67% No area and it is bad enough, can't think what it will be like in Glasgow and Dundee where biggest Yes vote were.
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 18:38 - Mar 1 with 1912 views
Better Together is what I said, how's that construed to have you saying if the grass is greener f#ck off? If you'd prefer Scotland did have independence you should just say that as its a fairer position to take. The majority of Scotland voted for it so Scotland at that moment did think Better Together and being in the UK was preferable so saying they all think they'd be better off independent is factually incorrect and does the argument for keeping the union more harm than good. I think a 2nd referendum will do loads of harm to society as the last one is still causing ill feeling and it will stoke it all up worse again. I live in a 67% No area and it is bad enough, can't think what it will be like in Glasgow and Dundee where biggest Yes vote were.
You are saying that Scotland will be fine - that's your opinion.....I think very differently & I actually think that most sensible jocks think like me.
I am not saying what you have construed whatsoever. I don't give a flying fook, basically, if the jocks go play in their playground and become independent. The current poles suggest the jocks want independence so I am not factually wrong - let them have it and enjoy all the many riches that you mention.(shocked we give them any money with all those profits that they must be making!!!).
The SNP are problems for sure and the little winnie girl who runs them is horrid imho....and the chap that represents them at Westminster.
And for you to suggest that Scotland will be good without the Westminster monies is very strange. We will find out if the SNP get their way.
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 18:51 - Mar 1 with 1891 views
Stupid and easily manipulated is probably too complimentary for our electorate.
Surely you must realised making a comment like that can only lead to the conclusion that you feel the electorate shouldn't have any say in who runs the country. So who gets a say.
You are saying that Scotland will be fine - that's your opinion.....I think very differently & I actually think that most sensible jocks think like me.
I am not saying what you have construed whatsoever. I don't give a flying fook, basically, if the jocks go play in their playground and become independent. The current poles suggest the jocks want independence so I am not factually wrong - let them have it and enjoy all the many riches that you mention.(shocked we give them any money with all those profits that they must be making!!!).
The SNP are problems for sure and the little winnie girl who runs them is horrid imho....and the chap that represents them at Westminster.
And for you to suggest that Scotland will be good without the Westminster monies is very strange. We will find out if the SNP get their way.
If you don't think Scotland could manage independently that's fine but no one on here has said we'll be financially better off, certainly not immediately, what has been said is that as a small nation with natural resources then of course we can be an independent nation. The only fact on independence was the referendum, 55% voted No, that is an indisputable fact, the last poll was exactly 50% each, first in many that has not been slightly in favour of independence, they are not facts but only a small portion of the electorate in a sample poll. I will say that publicly No voters are less vocal so the impression can be skewed as usual by the outspoken minority, although there's no doubt the vote feels closer this time. One thing that is apparent however is that less trust is being given to the current Holyrood government than when the referendum took place, the general feeling then was they were a safe pair of hands governing well, that's not the case at the moment so could hit them hard along with the Salmond fiasco
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 20:19 - Mar 1 with 1744 views
Surely you must realised making a comment like that can only lead to the conclusion that you feel the electorate shouldn't have any say in who runs the country. So who gets a say.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 19:12]
That’s not the only conclusion. Democracy is far from perfect but it’s better than the alternatives. Not that we really have much of a democracy in reality anyway.
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 20:52 - Mar 1 with 1701 views
If you don't think Scotland could manage independently that's fine but no one on here has said we'll be financially better off, certainly not immediately, what has been said is that as a small nation with natural resources then of course we can be an independent nation. The only fact on independence was the referendum, 55% voted No, that is an indisputable fact, the last poll was exactly 50% each, first in many that has not been slightly in favour of independence, they are not facts but only a small portion of the electorate in a sample poll. I will say that publicly No voters are less vocal so the impression can be skewed as usual by the outspoken minority, although there's no doubt the vote feels closer this time. One thing that is apparent however is that less trust is being given to the current Holyrood government than when the referendum took place, the general feeling then was they were a safe pair of hands governing well, that's not the case at the moment so could hit them hard along with the Salmond fiasco
Isn’t that natural resource going to be pretty much redundant in the next 50 years or so?
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
Better Together is what I said, how's that construed to have you saying if the grass is greener f#ck off? If you'd prefer Scotland did have independence you should just say that as its a fairer position to take. The majority of Scotland voted for it so Scotland at that moment did think Better Together and being in the UK was preferable so saying they all think they'd be better off independent is factually incorrect and does the argument for keeping the union more harm than good. I think a 2nd referendum will do loads of harm to society as the last one is still causing ill feeling and it will stoke it all up worse again. I live in a 67% No area and it is bad enough, can't think what it will be like in Glasgow and Dundee where biggest Yes vote were.
So if your region voted to remain,and the rest of the country voted for independence,would you be dragged out of the union against your region’s wishes? It would seem a bit hypocritical of the SNP to apply that rule only when it’s suits them.
I wish we could have normal debates about these issues without people on both sides trying to force their own views on others.I’m not including you in this Karl,but for once it would be great if we all treated others with a bit of respect and civility.
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 22:01 - Mar 1 with 1619 views
So if your region voted to remain,and the rest of the country voted for independence,would you be dragged out of the union against your region’s wishes? It would seem a bit hypocritical of the SNP to apply that rule only when it’s suits them.
I wish we could have normal debates about these issues without people on both sides trying to force their own views on others.I’m not including you in this Karl,but for once it would be great if we all treated others with a bit of respect and civility.
Yes agree Stowe👠I have said but I voted no in the referendum, as did 67% in my region (Shetland and Orkney). Along with pockets on the East Coast we're the fly in the ointment and we always get the sh#tty end of the stick from SNP, Western Isles get subsidised ferries and all sorts of benefits while we get left out other than trying to foist dual language road signs and Gaelic lessons in our schools when theres no history of the language here, Scotland might be tartan and shortbread on the tourist brochures but we're nothing like it, our links to Norse culture is recent and very evident. This has started a debate and in Shetlands case a request for devolved ruling for the Northern Isles from Holyrood to have more autonomy. It is creating a bit of a stir and ultimately it doesn't have much legs to it but we were the last region to become part of Scotland in the 1400s, being handed over by Norway as part of an unpaid dowry, so given our big No vote there is strength behind it and is added to with the SNPs position on Brexit, I'm surprised there hasn't been more made of it by political bodies tbh Edit. Brexit position of SNP I mean their view that Scotland should be treated differently as we voted No overall so agrees with Stowes point we could (and have) claim the same on independence. I will say that the feeling would be to tie ourselves in with Norway as opposed to UK/England. Shetland is half the distance to Bergen than London and closer than Newcastle, Orkney is about 10/20 miles closer to Newcastle than Bergen so geography doesn't tie us to England as such. The much fabled oil riches become another argument altogether!
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 22:34]
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 22:16 - Mar 1 with 1607 views
You are saying that Scotland will be fine - that's your opinion.....I think very differently & I actually think that most sensible jocks think like me.
I am not saying what you have construed whatsoever. I don't give a flying fook, basically, if the jocks go play in their playground and become independent. The current poles suggest the jocks want independence so I am not factually wrong - let them have it and enjoy all the many riches that you mention.(shocked we give them any money with all those profits that they must be making!!!).
The SNP are problems for sure and the little winnie girl who runs them is horrid imho....and the chap that represents them at Westminster.
And for you to suggest that Scotland will be good without the Westminster monies is very strange. We will find out if the SNP get their way.
Bit of xenophobia, bit of sexism and some poor spelling. Great effort.
Yes agree Stowe👠I have said but I voted no in the referendum, as did 67% in my region (Shetland and Orkney). Along with pockets on the East Coast we're the fly in the ointment and we always get the sh#tty end of the stick from SNP, Western Isles get subsidised ferries and all sorts of benefits while we get left out other than trying to foist dual language road signs and Gaelic lessons in our schools when theres no history of the language here, Scotland might be tartan and shortbread on the tourist brochures but we're nothing like it, our links to Norse culture is recent and very evident. This has started a debate and in Shetlands case a request for devolved ruling for the Northern Isles from Holyrood to have more autonomy. It is creating a bit of a stir and ultimately it doesn't have much legs to it but we were the last region to become part of Scotland in the 1400s, being handed over by Norway as part of an unpaid dowry, so given our big No vote there is strength behind it and is added to with the SNPs position on Brexit, I'm surprised there hasn't been more made of it by political bodies tbh Edit. Brexit position of SNP I mean their view that Scotland should be treated differently as we voted No overall so agrees with Stowes point we could (and have) claim the same on independence. I will say that the feeling would be to tie ourselves in with Norway as opposed to UK/England. Shetland is half the distance to Bergen than London and closer than Newcastle, Orkney is about 10/20 miles closer to Newcastle than Bergen so geography doesn't tie us to England as such. The much fabled oil riches become another argument altogether!
[Post edited 1 Mar 2021 22:34]
I was in Quebec just before their second referendum in 1995, when independence lost about 50.5% to 49.5%. I was staying with my wife’s Anglophone (Jewish) relatives, who expected to lose and were preparing to join millions of others across the border in Ontario. The argument then was “If Canada is divisible, so is Quebec”, meaning the huge North which had only a few mostly indigenous inhabitants but also most of Quebec’s hydro power. Fortunately, the question didn’t have to be put.
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 00:42 - Mar 2 with 1499 views
I was in Quebec just before their second referendum in 1995, when independence lost about 50.5% to 49.5%. I was staying with my wife’s Anglophone (Jewish) relatives, who expected to lose and were preparing to join millions of others across the border in Ontario. The argument then was “If Canada is divisible, so is Quebec”, meaning the huge North which had only a few mostly indigenous inhabitants but also most of Quebec’s hydro power. Fortunately, the question didn’t have to be put.
That's interesting, did the independence movement quieten down after the 2nd referendum do you know?
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 09:12 - Mar 2 with 1408 views
That's interesting, did the independence movement quieten down after the 2nd referendum do you know?
I believe the Quebecois independence bloc went into a civil war after the defeat and lost its organisational strength. There was always a divide between the urban leftist "another world is possible" faction and the country "land and (Catholic) faith" wing, and the defeat blew it open. Canada also went into a long recession that hit Quebec hard and showed a lot of the people how much they depended on support from the rest of the country. Despite getting so close on that second referendum, there hasn't been a third.
Interestingly, it slowly emerged after the vote how much cheating had gone on by PQ-appointed election officials. Nearly 50% of ballot papers were rejected in a few anti-independence areas. No doubt all the evidence would have been swept under the carpet if the vote had gone the other way. Another thing for you to worry about!
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 11:04 - Mar 2 with 1364 views
I believe the Quebecois independence bloc went into a civil war after the defeat and lost its organisational strength. There was always a divide between the urban leftist "another world is possible" faction and the country "land and (Catholic) faith" wing, and the defeat blew it open. Canada also went into a long recession that hit Quebec hard and showed a lot of the people how much they depended on support from the rest of the country. Despite getting so close on that second referendum, there hasn't been a third.
Interestingly, it slowly emerged after the vote how much cheating had gone on by PQ-appointed election officials. Nearly 50% of ballot papers were rejected in a few anti-independence areas. No doubt all the evidence would have been swept under the carpet if the vote had gone the other way. Another thing for you to worry about!
A lot of big employers left Montreal for Toronto during the last independence campaign when it looked as though a yes vote was a very real possibility. They never came back and Montreal became something of a provincial backwater, a status it's never really recovered from.
A lot of big employers left Montreal for Toronto during the last independence campaign when it looked as though a yes vote was a very real possibility. They never came back and Montreal became something of a provincial backwater, a status it's never really recovered from.
Exactly, even the Bank of Montreal is essentially run out of Toronto.
It's a weird place, but I really like it. It reminds me of Manchester, in that so many buildings date from its peak of about 1900, with some very odd-looking 1970s and 1980s infrastructure thrown in. It looks a bit shabby, in part due to what the frost does to it each year, but not a all scary like the rust belt cities across the border, though there is a drug problem.
Another influence in its relative decline is that Asian immigrants are put off by Francophonie and naturally feel there are more potential long-term opportunities for their families in wider Canada, also as a potential springboard into the US. That keeps shifting the population and wealth balance of the country westwards. Quebec encourages immigrant families from Francophone Africa, but even many of them jump ship to other parts of the country. What I did see on my last trip about 2018 was a lot of (stunning) young French people working in offices, hotels and restaurants, who say there is much more work there for them than at home.
[Post edited 2 Mar 2021 11:55]
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Salmon v Sturgeon on 07:42 - Mar 19 with 1097 views
So apparantly Sturgeon has been officially found to have have mislead the Scottish Parliament on what she knew about the Salmond case and as a consequence, broken ministerial code. Will she resign?
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