| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 22:29 - Oct 7 with 2625 views | Saintsforeverj |
There is no way we are going back. Scotland closing pubs and restaurants today in some areas. Rumours of the same happening in England, being announced Monday. Virus is becoming rampant across the country including a death in Southampton hospital. Local schools reporting cases and whole year groups isolating. NHS will be dealing with winter illness, flu, Covid and falls, means we have a very difficult few months ahead. Things will get worse as winter sets in. No way they will let fans back with all this going on. [Post edited 7 Oct 2020 22:31]
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 07:53 - Oct 8 with 2549 views | JaySaint |
stop this madness | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 09:33 - Oct 8 with 2511 views | DorsetIan |
What I'm still waiting for is some proper explanation about why the cases continued to fall throughout most of the summer while we all saw huge crowds outside on beaches, but then suddenly picked up again so strongly in mid- to late August.
If I were to guess - and it is only a guess - I would say that the increases have been driven by indoor contact and that socially distanced congregation outside is pretty low risk. In which case, say, 25% full stadia would probably be fine - particularly in cities with low numbers to start with.
I'm still experiencing idiots with no masks standing right next to me when they talk to me, so I think there are some pretty basic messages that are not getting through to some. At least in a well run restaurant or stadium, the rules can be properly enforced. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 10:34 - Oct 8 with 2487 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 09:33 - Oct 8 by DorsetIan |
What I'm still waiting for is some proper explanation about why the cases continued to fall throughout most of the summer while we all saw huge crowds outside on beaches, but then suddenly picked up again so strongly in mid- to late August.
If I were to guess - and it is only a guess - I would say that the increases have been driven by indoor contact and that socially distanced congregation outside is pretty low risk. In which case, say, 25% full stadia would probably be fine - particularly in cities with low numbers to start with.
I'm still experiencing idiots with no masks standing right next to me when they talk to me, so I think there are some pretty basic messages that are not getting through to some. At least in a well run restaurant or stadium, the rules can be properly enforced. |
do you not think that more cases are being found due to the numbers being tested are vastly higher now compared to 3-4 months ago?
I saw a stark headline that Northumbria uni discovered that 770+ students were infected. You would have thought they had the plague the way it was described. It turns out that over 700 were not even aware they had it and the rest are perfectly fine.
would they have been tested back in May? I would so a big fat NO
Understand fully that they are 'spreaders' but we are shutting down the country (and destroying lives) for a such a minimal amount of people in trouble with this. Even the WHO have downgraded its threat/danger, and by some distance.
How long will the madness go on for? this is destroying the country and some seem to want greater lockdown. Barking mad if you ask me. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:18 - Oct 8 with 2464 views | DorsetIan |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 10:34 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
do you not think that more cases are being found due to the numbers being tested are vastly higher now compared to 3-4 months ago?
I saw a stark headline that Northumbria uni discovered that 770+ students were infected. You would have thought they had the plague the way it was described. It turns out that over 700 were not even aware they had it and the rest are perfectly fine.
would they have been tested back in May? I would so a big fat NO
Understand fully that they are 'spreaders' but we are shutting down the country (and destroying lives) for a such a minimal amount of people in trouble with this. Even the WHO have downgraded its threat/danger, and by some distance.
How long will the madness go on for? this is destroying the country and some seem to want greater lockdown. Barking mad if you ask me. |
Yes, definitely the numbers are bigger because there is much more testing, but even so, as the numbers are going up faster than the testing is increasing, it still demonstrates that the virus is spreading again. Also, the hospital admissions and the deaths, which are also starting to increase, have nothing to do with the amount of testing being done.
The problem is that even over 6 months in, it doesn't seem as though (well that's the impression I get anyway) anyone really knows what's working and what's not and so all the responses are still a bit random.
It is a really difficult balancing act to try to control the spread of the virus while not killing the economy or increasing the risks of deaths from poverty and other causes. But for me, the govt's strategy and messaging has been all over the place since the Cummings affair. (I know that's a minority view!). | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:44 - Oct 8 with 2452 views | Sadoldgit |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 10:34 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
do you not think that more cases are being found due to the numbers being tested are vastly higher now compared to 3-4 months ago?
I saw a stark headline that Northumbria uni discovered that 770+ students were infected. You would have thought they had the plague the way it was described. It turns out that over 700 were not even aware they had it and the rest are perfectly fine.
would they have been tested back in May? I would so a big fat NO
Understand fully that they are 'spreaders' but we are shutting down the country (and destroying lives) for a such a minimal amount of people in trouble with this. Even the WHO have downgraded its threat/danger, and by some distance.
How long will the madness go on for? this is destroying the country and some seem to want greater lockdown. Barking mad if you ask me. |
“Minimal amount”? Not only does it kill, it can cause long term health problems. Governments don’t shut down economies for no good reason. The death toll could well be much higher this winter, but it has already killed hundreds of thousands worldwide and left others with lifelong health problems. You sound like Trump and you really don’t get it do you? This is very serious. |  | | |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:49 - Oct 8 with 2447 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:44 - Oct 8 by Sadoldgit |
“Minimal amount”? Not only does it kill, it can cause long term health problems. Governments don’t shut down economies for no good reason. The death toll could well be much higher this winter, but it has already killed hundreds of thousands worldwide and left others with lifelong health problems. You sound like Trump and you really don’t get it do you? This is very serious. |
it is minimal. the WHO have totally downgraded it. Lockdowns do not work as it is not going away
As for the death toll. This was said for VE day, this was said for people going to the pubs, this was said for BLM protests, this was said for far-right protests et al.
yet, it is very minimal
I tell you what, if there is not massive uptick in deaths, due to the 48k lost details of those tested, then this is all a waste of time | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 12:31 - Oct 8 with 2418 views | Sadoldgit |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:49 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
it is minimal. the WHO have totally downgraded it. Lockdowns do not work as it is not going away
As for the death toll. This was said for VE day, this was said for people going to the pubs, this was said for BLM protests, this was said for far-right protests et al.
yet, it is very minimal
I tell you what, if there is not massive uptick in deaths, due to the 48k lost details of those tested, then this is all a waste of time |
I hope that you are right for the sake of people’s lives, but sadly I think we shall start to see the death toll rise rapidly soon unless some of the drugs that have been suggested keep the mortality rates down do the trick. | | | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 12:59 - Oct 8 with 2411 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 09:33 - Oct 8 by DorsetIan |
What I'm still waiting for is some proper explanation about why the cases continued to fall throughout most of the summer while we all saw huge crowds outside on beaches, but then suddenly picked up again so strongly in mid- to late August.
If I were to guess - and it is only a guess - I would say that the increases have been driven by indoor contact and that socially distanced congregation outside is pretty low risk. In which case, say, 25% full stadia would probably be fine - particularly in cities with low numbers to start with.
I'm still experiencing idiots with no masks standing right next to me when they talk to me, so I think there are some pretty basic messages that are not getting through to some. At least in a well run restaurant or stadium, the rules can be properly enforced. |
How do we know how long it takes for the virus to spread? All those who packed onto the beach, how do we know if say 3 people had it asymptomatically, spread it to 5 others, who gradually spread it to 10 others, then 20 others etc taking 2 months to notice?
As for this government getting it wrong (as suggested by some), I don't see any less problems in Scotland, France, USA, Spain, Italy, India or anywhere else. Boris certainly has got thing wrong, but nobody elected him because of his knowledge of surviving pandemics or alien invasions. And the biggest problem any government has, is the NHS or equivalent not being able to cope. As someone mentioned, 700 students can get it, they are all fine so what is the problem? Well if they pass it on to vulnerable people, who end up in hospital, this happens across the country, hospitals end up with people in coridors gasping for breath, without proper treatment.
The single most fear of the government, as I understand it, is people dying in the streets, because the NHS can't cope. Hospitals in the North, already reporting that they are close to being full. Otherwise, we could just all risk it and catch it, knowing that that treatment would be available. But they can't allow the NHS to possibly get swamped over the winter.
The only answer really is a total lockdown. But the economy would crash, probably causing other health problems. What can we do?? [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 13:03]
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:19 - Oct 8 with 2392 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
Put it this way, if there were NO restrictions, when many tens of thousands more die, people would moan "the government didn't act early enough" |  |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:20 - Oct 8 with 2390 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 12:59 - Oct 8 by Saintsforeverj |
How do we know how long it takes for the virus to spread? All those who packed onto the beach, how do we know if say 3 people had it asymptomatically, spread it to 5 others, who gradually spread it to 10 others, then 20 others etc taking 2 months to notice?
As for this government getting it wrong (as suggested by some), I don't see any less problems in Scotland, France, USA, Spain, Italy, India or anywhere else. Boris certainly has got thing wrong, but nobody elected him because of his knowledge of surviving pandemics or alien invasions. And the biggest problem any government has, is the NHS or equivalent not being able to cope. As someone mentioned, 700 students can get it, they are all fine so what is the problem? Well if they pass it on to vulnerable people, who end up in hospital, this happens across the country, hospitals end up with people in coridors gasping for breath, without proper treatment.
The single most fear of the government, as I understand it, is people dying in the streets, because the NHS can't cope. Hospitals in the North, already reporting that they are close to being full. Otherwise, we could just all risk it and catch it, knowing that that treatment would be available. But they can't allow the NHS to possibly get swamped over the winter.
The only answer really is a total lockdown. But the economy would crash, probably causing other health problems. What can we do?? [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 13:03]
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what can we do you ask?
get on with your life. This is the UKs 24th most deadly illness. The WHO have downgraded its threat by a huge margin. Other nations without strict lockdown are not better/worse really.
like many other illnesses, just have to live with it. Otherwise, good bye the country we know today.
I personally feel that once large numbers are made redundant because of this, attitudes will change very quickly | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:23 - Oct 8 with 2387 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:19 - Oct 8 by Gennaro_Contaldo |
Put it this way, if there were NO restrictions, when many tens of thousands more die, people would moan "the government didn't act early enough" |
Exactly. And if people were spilling out into the streets from hospital entrances, gasping for breath, shouting "help", with nurses and doctors running from patient to patient, unable to cope, the government would be slated. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:25 - Oct 8 with 2382 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:19 - Oct 8 by Gennaro_Contaldo |
Put it this way, if there were NO restrictions, when many tens of thousands more die, people would moan "the government didn't act early enough" |
but people are not dying like that. We all saw the pictures of huge numbers ignoring social distancing. We saw it for weeks and months. Yet, no real change.
I believe the Govt are now working with the inevitable enquiry in mind, given the scathing they received around Easter. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:26 - Oct 8 with 2380 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:20 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
what can we do you ask?
get on with your life. This is the UKs 24th most deadly illness. The WHO have downgraded its threat by a huge margin. Other nations without strict lockdown are not better/worse really.
like many other illnesses, just have to live with it. Otherwise, good bye the country we know today.
I personally feel that once large numbers are made redundant because of this, attitudes will change very quickly |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511
The biggest issue is deaths and the NHS not being able to cope. Can a civilised country allow / risk people dying outside hospital entrances? | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:27 - Oct 8 with 2373 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:26 - Oct 8 by Saintsforeverj |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511
The biggest issue is deaths and the NHS not being able to cope. Can a civilised country allow / risk people dying outside hospital entrances? |
The NHS coped at Easter. In fact, many wards were deserted. The 'Nightingale' hospitals were never used. That was with the challenges that the Govt / PHE / NHS were not properly prepared (PPE?)...
The NHS was fine and had oodles of capacity (and still does).
So much so, people are now dying because of missed treatment over the last 6 months.
[Post edited 8 Oct 2020 13:29]
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:30 - Oct 8 with 2364 views | Sadoldgit |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:20 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
what can we do you ask?
get on with your life. This is the UKs 24th most deadly illness. The WHO have downgraded its threat by a huge margin. Other nations without strict lockdown are not better/worse really.
like many other illnesses, just have to live with it. Otherwise, good bye the country we know today.
I personally feel that once large numbers are made redundant because of this, attitudes will change very quickly |
They will change more quickly once the death rate goes through the roof. It has already killed 3 times more people than flu and pneumonia this year in the UK and would have killed many more without the previous lockdown. Perhaps you should tell the loved ones that it has killed already that they should learn to live with it. Yes, we do have to try and find a balance, but playing the pandemic down a la Trump is no more than rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. | | | |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:31 - Oct 8 with 2362 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:25 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
but people are not dying like that. We all saw the pictures of huge numbers ignoring social distancing. We saw it for weeks and months. Yet, no real change.
I believe the Govt are now working with the inevitable enquiry in mind, given the scathing they received around Easter. |
Yes because the previous lockdown had made it die right down. Then LOADS of people went on holiday to various places abroad, places where the virus hadn't died down as much. They mingled a lot, sat on planes, probably got drunk occasionally and touched things or each other then brought it back.
Added to that the fact that a couple of communities in the north started mixing heavily around certain religious festivals during August, it was bound to kick off again.
Sending the students back though was the most stupid thing. They could learn from home - most student accommodation is filthy at the best of times and students always get illnesses at the start of the year; glandular fever, colds, flu, STDs ... now Coronavirus.
So yes, the mingling around June/July wasn't bad and was more outdoors.
But it was obvious it was going to creep back after religious festivals, trips to other countries where it was kicking off again and also, students returning.
We're almost back to square one. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:31 - Oct 8 with 2358 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:30 - Oct 8 by Sadoldgit |
They will change more quickly once the death rate goes through the roof. It has already killed 3 times more people than flu and pneumonia this year in the UK and would have killed many more without the previous lockdown. Perhaps you should tell the loved ones that it has killed already that they should learn to live with it. Yes, we do have to try and find a balance, but playing the pandemic down a la Trump is no more than rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. |
it is the UKs 24th deadliest illness. That is not my opinion or spin, that is a fact | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:31 - Oct 8 with 2356 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:27 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
The NHS coped at Easter. In fact, many wards were deserted. The 'Nightingale' hospitals were never used. That was with the challenges that the Govt / PHE / NHS were not properly prepared (PPE?)...
The NHS was fine and had oodles of capacity (and still does).
So much so, people are now dying because of missed treatment over the last 6 months.
[Post edited 8 Oct 2020 13:29]
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I understand the opposite view, and I know it's arguable that further lockdowns will cause more damage than getting the virus. But I can understand the government's problem: it's a nightmare. They are fearful of what I have described (people dying at hospital entrances). What we can't do, is suddenly produce new doctors and nurses if need be. Remember, hospitals coped in April because we had a lockdown. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:38 - Oct 8 with 2348 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:31 - Oct 8 by Saintsforeverj |
I understand the opposite view, and I know it's arguable that further lockdowns will cause more damage than getting the virus. But I can understand the government's problem: it's a nightmare. They are fearful of what I have described (people dying at hospital entrances). What we can't do, is suddenly produce new doctors and nurses if need be. Remember, hospitals coped in April because we had a lockdown. |
Hospitals largely had oodles of capacity outside the major hubs. Oodles.
obviously, BBC, ITV news will only show us scenes from London, Birmingham et al where it was very busy. These units are very busy anyway.
we never ever had people dying in main entrances to hospitals, despite being woefully prepared for this.
This country will be destroyed, the are going to be massive numbers laid off any moment now, as the furlough scheme shuts down.
Just wait till we have to pay this back, will make the last 10 years seem like a breeze.
As for the opposite view. It is increasingly becoming the main view, outside of Govt, including 1000s of medical experts in and around virology.
anyway, Lockdown has not worked in Bolton for example. Since their restricted placed the other week, infection rates have gone up. The Govt are in a pickle here. They rushed through powers to do what they want at a local level, but any national measure must be voted on in the house. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:45 - Oct 8 with 2344 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:38 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
Hospitals largely had oodles of capacity outside the major hubs. Oodles.
obviously, BBC, ITV news will only show us scenes from London, Birmingham et al where it was very busy. These units are very busy anyway.
we never ever had people dying in main entrances to hospitals, despite being woefully prepared for this.
This country will be destroyed, the are going to be massive numbers laid off any moment now, as the furlough scheme shuts down.
Just wait till we have to pay this back, will make the last 10 years seem like a breeze.
As for the opposite view. It is increasingly becoming the main view, outside of Govt, including 1000s of medical experts in and around virology.
anyway, Lockdown has not worked in Bolton for example. Since their restricted placed the other week, infection rates have gone up. The Govt are in a pickle here. They rushed through powers to do what they want at a local level, but any national measure must be voted on in the house. |
The lockdown in Bolton wasn't a lockdown. Pubs still remained open and that's why infection rates have gone up. Closing pubs at 10 is a nonsense. The virus still spreads. We either have a full lockdown or not. And if we don't, we risk hospitals being unable to cope. Easy for you to say they will cope just fine. You are not responsible for 68 million people.
The hospitals coped in April because we were locked down. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 13:48]
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:51 - Oct 8 with 2329 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:45 - Oct 8 by Saintsforeverj |
The lockdown in Bolton wasn't a lockdown. Pubs still remained open and that's why infection rates have gone up. Closing pubs at 10 is a nonsense. The virus still spreads. We either have a full lockdown or not. And if we don't, we risk hospitals being unable to cope. Easy for you to say they will cope just fine. You are not responsible for 68 million people.
The hospitals coped in April because we were locked down. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 13:48]
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it not me saying it, it is using the peak of this as an example. the peak being Easter when the virus was rife all through the new year, before lockdown started. We have been 'let out' for months, people have very much taken the pish (BLM protests?) and barely a scratch in the grand scheme (and compared to other illnesses).
Either lockdown fully until we have a vaccine (when is that? 12, 24, 36 months)?
what if the vaccine does not work? After all, I still get the flu now and then despite getting vaccinated every year.
or, let people get on with their lives using face masks, distancing and all the good stuff we have gotten used to over the last 6 months.
Get the gates open to St Mary's, given the Royal Albert Hall is allowed to open.
If people feel football fans will not behave, do not go. quite simple. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 14:18 - Oct 8 with 2301 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 13:51 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
it not me saying it, it is using the peak of this as an example. the peak being Easter when the virus was rife all through the new year, before lockdown started. We have been 'let out' for months, people have very much taken the pish (BLM protests?) and barely a scratch in the grand scheme (and compared to other illnesses).
Either lockdown fully until we have a vaccine (when is that? 12, 24, 36 months)?
what if the vaccine does not work? After all, I still get the flu now and then despite getting vaccinated every year.
or, let people get on with their lives using face masks, distancing and all the good stuff we have gotten used to over the last 6 months.
Get the gates open to St Mary's, given the Royal Albert Hall is allowed to open.
If people feel football fans will not behave, do not go. quite simple. |
I think you need to ask yourself, if it was that easy, why isn't a right wing Tory PM doing it? Why would a Conservative government (as well as many others) destroy the economy, when their remit is to protect it? There must be advice and evidence to say it is necessary, otherwise why would they do it? They are destroying themselves, so that me tells me that this is serious and real. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 14:19]
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 14:38 - Oct 8 with 2286 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 14:18 - Oct 8 by Saintsforeverj |
I think you need to ask yourself, if it was that easy, why isn't a right wing Tory PM doing it? Why would a Conservative government (as well as many others) destroy the economy, when their remit is to protect it? There must be advice and evidence to say it is necessary, otherwise why would they do it? They are destroying themselves, so that me tells me that this is serious and real. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 14:19]
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left or right wing has nothing to do with it.
I personally feel the government have an impossible job. Look at the absolute abuse they got earlier on in the year, whilst trying to sort the mess out of the prep's for C19 (largely the poor service provided by PHE). They know that they will be finished should the same level of heat be applied. Many believe the Govt are working now, with an eye on the enquiry that will follow.
Unless there is a large surge in covid positive deaths, support for any lockdown will just fall away, rather rapidly, let alone the mass redundancies inbound | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 14:47 - Oct 8 with 2278 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 14:38 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
left or right wing has nothing to do with it.
I personally feel the government have an impossible job. Look at the absolute abuse they got earlier on in the year, whilst trying to sort the mess out of the prep's for C19 (largely the poor service provided by PHE). They know that they will be finished should the same level of heat be applied. Many believe the Govt are working now, with an eye on the enquiry that will follow.
Unless there is a large surge in covid positive deaths, support for any lockdown will just fall away, rather rapidly, let alone the mass redundancies inbound |
But my point is, if a right wing government is imposing restrictions to freedom, it must be bad. I fail to see why they would destroy themselves and the economy they are supposed to be looking after, unless it was an absolute emergency.
And I agree. The government has an impossible job: it's an absolute nightmare. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 14:50]
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