| Uncle Ben....Gone 14:52 - Jun 18 with 18704 views | sP7qupUf |
The black character that has appeared on Uncle Ben's rice packaging is being dropped to avoid causing offence. When is all this going to end? This example is ridiculous. |  | | |  |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 01:01 - Jun 19 with 1702 views | Kerouac |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 00:50 - Jun 19 by Drizzy |
Understanding the biggest factors for why the crimes are committed in the first place is the first step to solving them.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to go any further because I've had to argue against the idea that crime is primarily a race or moral issue. Both of which are wrong for different reasons.
Tying it all together with your suggestion that there aren't any racists on here. Felixstowe brought up crime statistics for black people, how were they relevant? It's a poverty issue (amongst other things) and not a race issue. What's he trying to suggest, black people are naturally inclined to be criminal? |
This is what Felixstowe actually said;
"No but 48% of murder victims in London are black and 48% of murder suspects are black. This is despite only 13% of London's population being black, 60% white and 27% others .
The real tragedy is the black community should be taking action about this rather than protests about USA policing.
Unfortunately it is considered racist to point this out "
He is not saying black people are 'naturally' inclined to be criminal.
He is merely pointing out that they have a bigger problem than the police, which BLM ignores.
They are essentially making the police the scapegoat for the problems in their community.
The answers are not simple, they involve hard work and personal responsibility as well as taking responsibility for their neighbours, their community. The problem is not going to be fixed by anarchy on our streets, looting or defunding the police.
That's stupid. |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 01:06 - Jun 19 with 1698 views | Garyjack |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 00:50 - Jun 19 by Drizzy |
Understanding the biggest factors for why the crimes are committed in the first place is the first step to solving them.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to go any further because I've had to argue against the idea that crime is primarily a race or moral issue. Both of which are wrong for different reasons.
Tying it all together with your suggestion that there aren't any racists on here. Felixstowe brought up crime statistics for black people, how were they relevant? It's a poverty issue (amongst other things) and not a race issue. What's he trying to suggest, black people are naturally inclined to be criminal? |
Many posters have responded to the stance you've taken and to be honest, i can understand why. I'll leave it there for tonight. |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 01:11 - Jun 19 with 1690 views | Drizzy |
In a predictable but sad turn of events, the "studies" you've Googled reference hard-right think tanks like the Heritage Foundation. They're not academic and not peer-reviewed and you clearly haven't read all of them because they don't relate to your point.
Nothing else suggests anything other than poverty is the biggest factor. All the studies say is that fatherlessness leads to lots of negative outcomes, which I'm sure comes as a shock to noone. |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 01:20 - Jun 19 with 1683 views | Drizzy |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 01:01 - Jun 19 by Kerouac |
This is what Felixstowe actually said;
"No but 48% of murder victims in London are black and 48% of murder suspects are black. This is despite only 13% of London's population being black, 60% white and 27% others .
The real tragedy is the black community should be taking action about this rather than protests about USA policing.
Unfortunately it is considered racist to point this out "
He is not saying black people are 'naturally' inclined to be criminal.
He is merely pointing out that they have a bigger problem than the police, which BLM ignores.
They are essentially making the police the scapegoat for the problems in their community.
The answers are not simple, they involve hard work and personal responsibility as well as taking responsibility for their neighbours, their community. The problem is not going to be fixed by anarchy on our streets, looting or defunding the police.
That's stupid. |
BLM exists to protest police brutality and systemic racism. It doesn't and can't seek to solve all problems within the black community.
They're not scapegoating the police, they're protesting the violence and unequal treatment they receive from the police.
Most people don't feel victimised by this and don't expend so much energy trying to highlight all the problems in the black community using studies from hard-right think tanks and false statistics. | |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 05:49 - Jun 19 with 1653 views | FieryJack |
Reading this over breakfast.
Looks like Drizzy has, once again (and despite their valiant and commendable efforts) wiped the floor with his interlocutors and argued them into the ground.
Top stuff. |  | | |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 06:10 - Jun 19 with 1649 views | jackal |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 15:38 - Jun 18 by londonlisa2001 |
It’s a stereotype not a black person advertising a food product.
No one has said that there can’t be pictures of black people advertising food. |
As a person of Italian origins, am I supposed to be offended by Gio Compario in the Go Compare adverts or the puppets advertising Dolmio sauce? |  | | |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 07:01 - Jun 19 with 1618 views | Highjack |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 06:10 - Jun 19 by jackal |
As a person of Italian origins, am I supposed to be offended by Gio Compario in the Go Compare adverts or the puppets advertising Dolmio sauce? |
Only if they’re black. |  |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 07:52 - Jun 19 with 1602 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 05:49 - Jun 19 by FieryJack |
Reading this over breakfast.
Looks like Drizzy has, once again (and despite their valiant and commendable efforts) wiped the floor with his interlocutors and argued them into the ground.
Top stuff. |
Only if u agree with him , otherwise it comes across as repetitive bollux. |  | | |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 08:23 - Jun 19 with 1580 views | ItchySphincter |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 07:52 - Jun 19 by Treforys_Jack |
Only if u agree with him , otherwise it comes across as repetitive bollux. |
It is odd though, that when he makes points about the link between poverty and crime the usually suspects - you know, the ones that think that if they shout ‘I’m not racist!’ enough times it will make them not racist - are triggered and outraged, and it comes back to the thought of black people given fair and equal consideration. They want to look down from their high horse and judge those that make bad choices from their own position of relative comfort and advantage and label others that acknowledge a systematic problem as apologists for drug dealers and murderers. It really is quite a bizarre stance to take. |  |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 09:54 - Jun 19 with 1528 views | Best_loser |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 05:49 - Jun 19 by FieryJack |
Reading this over breakfast.
Looks like Drizzy has, once again (and despite their valiant and commendable efforts) wiped the floor with his interlocutors and argued them into the ground.
Top stuff. |
Absolutely
Shows them up for the paranoid fools that they are |  | | |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:19 - Jun 19 with 1521 views | Jango |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 08:23 - Jun 19 by ItchySphincter |
It is odd though, that when he makes points about the link between poverty and crime the usually suspects - you know, the ones that think that if they shout ‘I’m not racist!’ enough times it will make them not racist - are triggered and outraged, and it comes back to the thought of black people given fair and equal consideration. They want to look down from their high horse and judge those that make bad choices from their own position of relative comfort and advantage and label others that acknowledge a systematic problem as apologists for drug dealers and murderers. It really is quite a bizarre stance to take. |
The problem with Drizzy is it’s all one way. He doesn’t offer white people born into poverty the same sympathy and excuses. Imagine being a white man who’s known nothing but struggle you’re entire life, being told for the last 4 weeks that you’re privileged and if you don’t agree you’re an uneducated racist.
*Our freedom of information requests reveal almost half of murder victims and murder suspects in the capital are young black men - way out of proportion to London's population, in which 13% are black.
This is a stark contrast to everywhere else in the UK, where the racial and age profile of murder victims and suspects reflects the demographic in those areas.*
This tells us that it’s not a U.K. problem it’s very much much a London problem. So then the argument is, is it really down to poverty or is it down to the gang culture that’s been allowed to develop on the streets of London? Why is the every white man in the U.K. being classed as racist and privileged when the London is where the problem is. The obvious way to sort out the gang culture is to come down hard on those people but the police aren’t allowed because people like Drizzy accuse them of being racist for disproportionately stopping and searching black people in London, even though they are disproportionately committing the crime.
It’s not easy because there’s 3 or 4 generations of people involved. Blaming it all on white people is never gonna end well though. | | | |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:24 - Jun 19 with 1515 views | Kerouac |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 08:23 - Jun 19 by ItchySphincter |
It is odd though, that when he makes points about the link between poverty and crime the usually suspects - you know, the ones that think that if they shout ‘I’m not racist!’ enough times it will make them not racist - are triggered and outraged, and it comes back to the thought of black people given fair and equal consideration. They want to look down from their high horse and judge those that make bad choices from their own position of relative comfort and advantage and label others that acknowledge a systematic problem as apologists for drug dealers and murderers. It really is quite a bizarre stance to take. |
I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth, My early years were spent in Army housing (run down pokey places) my teens in a council house.
In my teens I had 2 groups that I associated with.
The first group were the lads I played sport with (for various different teams) and the second group were a group of lads who spent their time drinking, taking drugs and knocking cars over for their radios.
A number of the members of the 2nd group went on to have unfortunate futures.
When I think back, 80%+ of the second group didn't have fathers in the home and 100% played no sport.
They had no good male role models. This group were all white skinned, although influenced by 'black culture' hip hop was taking off, I remember one boy started to speak like he was a black man from South Central L.A. (which is around the time that I drifted from these people - I realised they were fecking idiots)
Those I know from sport largely went on to have decent futures, and some of them had brown/black skin.
These were the boys who had decent role models, interested fathers (most of the time - there are always exceptions) and had learnt something about self-pride and self-discipline.
That is my experience.
You may say that it is an anecdote....but my conclusions from my own experience is born out by the statistics for the UK in general.
...and it is a statistical fact that black and mixed race kids in the UK (...and the U.S.) are far more likely to grow up with limited contact with their father.
This can of course be changed, but it is harder and harder for those interested in actually fixing the problem (usually passionate people from the black community) to have that conversation when people like you are feeding them the line that really all of their problems come from a racist system and a racist society.
That is demonstrably not true - Anyone just need look at our law, our government, government policy over the last 3 decades, the fact that the British embraced immigration (we are more diverse than most countries on the planet) and our education sector.
Why are growing amounts of people believing this is a racist country when it is demonstrably not true?
See my thread on Cultural Marxism.
You also seemed to have missed that a sure indicator of the likelihood that your family lives in relative poverty is whether or not you have an intact nuclear family unit. Why? Because children do better when they have 2 adults sharing the load, 2 wages, 2 parents taking responsibility. | |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:33 - Jun 19 with 1505 views | Vincent_Vega |
Marmite are going to have to change their marketing campaign as if you ‘hate’ something of that colour it could be ‘problematic’ |  |
| Boycott Shampoo......Demand Real Poo!!! |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:46 - Jun 19 with 1489 views | Dr_Winston |
It's not so much about absentee fathers (some fathers in this world are better off gone), but the point about positive male role models does hold some weight. It does make a difference if a young man of any ethnic group has someone to look up to and is prepared to take on the role, be it a dad, uncle, family friend, teacher or whatever.
Always worth checking out what Ian Wright had to say about his old teacher Syd Pigden. He makes that point specifically. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:59 - Jun 19 with 1476 views | Highjack |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:46 - Jun 19 by Dr_Winston |
It's not so much about absentee fathers (some fathers in this world are better off gone), but the point about positive male role models does hold some weight. It does make a difference if a young man of any ethnic group has someone to look up to and is prepared to take on the role, be it a dad, uncle, family friend, teacher or whatever.
Always worth checking out what Ian Wright had to say about his old teacher Syd Pigden. He makes that point specifically. |
It’s also important that young people have things to do with their time. When I was a kid most evenings were taken up with football training, scouts, youth club etc. I never had time to go out doing drive by shootings, shanking people’s livers, giving bitches my dick or anything else Stormzy sings about. | |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 11:36 - Jun 19 with 1445 views | ItchySphincter |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:24 - Jun 19 by Kerouac |
I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth, My early years were spent in Army housing (run down pokey places) my teens in a council house.
In my teens I had 2 groups that I associated with.
The first group were the lads I played sport with (for various different teams) and the second group were a group of lads who spent their time drinking, taking drugs and knocking cars over for their radios.
A number of the members of the 2nd group went on to have unfortunate futures.
When I think back, 80%+ of the second group didn't have fathers in the home and 100% played no sport.
They had no good male role models. This group were all white skinned, although influenced by 'black culture' hip hop was taking off, I remember one boy started to speak like he was a black man from South Central L.A. (which is around the time that I drifted from these people - I realised they were fecking idiots)
Those I know from sport largely went on to have decent futures, and some of them had brown/black skin.
These were the boys who had decent role models, interested fathers (most of the time - there are always exceptions) and had learnt something about self-pride and self-discipline.
That is my experience.
You may say that it is an anecdote....but my conclusions from my own experience is born out by the statistics for the UK in general.
...and it is a statistical fact that black and mixed race kids in the UK (...and the U.S.) are far more likely to grow up with limited contact with their father.
This can of course be changed, but it is harder and harder for those interested in actually fixing the problem (usually passionate people from the black community) to have that conversation when people like you are feeding them the line that really all of their problems come from a racist system and a racist society.
That is demonstrably not true - Anyone just need look at our law, our government, government policy over the last 3 decades, the fact that the British embraced immigration (we are more diverse than most countries on the planet) and our education sector.
Why are growing amounts of people believing this is a racist country when it is demonstrably not true?
See my thread on Cultural Marxism.
You also seemed to have missed that a sure indicator of the likelihood that your family lives in relative poverty is whether or not you have an intact nuclear family unit. Why? Because children do better when they have 2 adults sharing the load, 2 wages, 2 parents taking responsibility. |
People like me..... 
Your post may be anecdotal, which in itself is fine, it’s also contains generalisations. I’m not feeding anyone a line but Newp makes a fair point between poverty and crime. That doesn’t have to be racial but statistics show that there is a link between poverty and BAME communities. I’m not sure why that triggers you so much? It appears to be an observation based in fact. Not all people living in increased hardship will turn to crime but for those that do the hardship may have been a factor. Why is it offensive to consider that? [Post edited 19 Jun 2020 11:47]
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 11:38 - Jun 19 with 1440 views | Drizzy |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:19 - Jun 19 by Jango |
The problem with Drizzy is it’s all one way. He doesn’t offer white people born into poverty the same sympathy and excuses. Imagine being a white man who’s known nothing but struggle you’re entire life, being told for the last 4 weeks that you’re privileged and if you don’t agree you’re an uneducated racist.
*Our freedom of information requests reveal almost half of murder victims and murder suspects in the capital are young black men - way out of proportion to London's population, in which 13% are black.
This is a stark contrast to everywhere else in the UK, where the racial and age profile of murder victims and suspects reflects the demographic in those areas.*
This tells us that it’s not a U.K. problem it’s very much much a London problem. So then the argument is, is it really down to poverty or is it down to the gang culture that’s been allowed to develop on the streets of London? Why is the every white man in the U.K. being classed as racist and privileged when the London is where the problem is. The obvious way to sort out the gang culture is to come down hard on those people but the police aren’t allowed because people like Drizzy accuse them of being racist for disproportionately stopping and searching black people in London, even though they are disproportionately committing the crime.
It’s not easy because there’s 3 or 4 generations of people involved. Blaming it all on white people is never gonna end well though. |
I've not mentioned the term "white privilege" once in any debate on this forum because I think it's a stupid term. Groups of working-class white people, particularly Irish and Jewish people, suffered similar levels of discrimination when they first arrived in the UK that carries on today. Racism has and always will be a top-down problem, from the elites to the masses. The problem is so many people are in denial that racism exists and have found themselves tied to an ideology that promotes racism.
With regards to your points on stop and search it's just so so wrong. I don't doubt that black people disproportionately commit, and are victims of, crime. This is tied to the fact they are disproportionately in poverty because their rates of committing a crime and being the victims of crime are similar.
"The obvious way to sort out the gang culture is to come down hard on those people but the police aren’t allowed because people like Drizzy accuse them of being racist for disproportionately stopping and searching black people in London."
Yeah they tried that and it didn't work. Knife crime continued to rise at the height of stop and search. Black people were searched at 7x the average and thoroughly searched at 12x the average, which involves removing your clothing. Your figures about murder suspects, I repeat suspects, shows it to be around 4x the expected rate.
All stop and search did was criminalise young black people, particularly men, to the point where even Theresa May called it "unfair towards young black men" and they stop and search was on the decline.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/pol
If you're going to make arguments about problems within the black community then at the very least do some research. The problem is when you make ridiculous claims like "the police can't come down hard in case they're accused of being racist" that aren't rooted in evidence expect to be called out. The problem is you can't defend the indefensible and turn to self-imposed victimhood. | |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 11:44 - Jun 19 with 1434 views | ItchySphincter |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:46 - Jun 19 by Dr_Winston |
It's not so much about absentee fathers (some fathers in this world are better off gone), but the point about positive male role models does hold some weight. It does make a difference if a young man of any ethnic group has someone to look up to and is prepared to take on the role, be it a dad, uncle, family friend, teacher or whatever.
Always worth checking out what Ian Wright had to say about his old teacher Syd Pigden. He makes that point specifically. |
I wouldn’t argue against his point about the family unit either. There can be many defining and driving factors. [Post edited 19 Jun 2020 12:15]
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 11:50 - Jun 19 with 1421 views | Drizzy |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 10:59 - Jun 19 by Highjack |
It’s also important that young people have things to do with their time. When I was a kid most evenings were taken up with football training, scouts, youth club etc. I never had time to go out doing drive by shootings, shanking people’s livers, giving bitches my dick or anything else Stormzy sings about. |
Do you think John Lennon is a walrus? Genuine question. You've got an unhealthy obsession with Stormzy's song lyrics.
Also, donate some money to the anti-slavery charities while you're at it. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:53 - Jun 19 with 1415 views | Catullus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 01:20 - Jun 19 by Drizzy |
BLM exists to protest police brutality and systemic racism. It doesn't and can't seek to solve all problems within the black community.
They're not scapegoating the police, they're protesting the violence and unequal treatment they receive from the police.
Most people don't feel victimised by this and don't expend so much energy trying to highlight all the problems in the black community using studies from hard-right think tanks and false statistics. |
https://time.com/4433679/black-lives-matter-platform-demands/
My ptoblem is, even if they got rid of every racist police officer, if the USA criminal justice system became fair and equal over night, there would still be racists in the community at large.
So your first line may or may not be true. Maybe they should be looking to solve all problems because racism doesn't just come from the misguided and ignorant belief that people of a different colour are not equal.
The problems in black communities don't just come from ignorance (of the racists around them) and I still believe a lot of racism is a top down problem, not just about ignorance, poor education or inherent, historical bigotry passed down through families.
To solve one problem maybe we do need to solve all of them? | |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 12:00 - Jun 19 with 1411 views | Jango |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 11:38 - Jun 19 by Drizzy |
I've not mentioned the term "white privilege" once in any debate on this forum because I think it's a stupid term. Groups of working-class white people, particularly Irish and Jewish people, suffered similar levels of discrimination when they first arrived in the UK that carries on today. Racism has and always will be a top-down problem, from the elites to the masses. The problem is so many people are in denial that racism exists and have found themselves tied to an ideology that promotes racism.
With regards to your points on stop and search it's just so so wrong. I don't doubt that black people disproportionately commit, and are victims of, crime. This is tied to the fact they are disproportionately in poverty because their rates of committing a crime and being the victims of crime are similar.
"The obvious way to sort out the gang culture is to come down hard on those people but the police aren’t allowed because people like Drizzy accuse them of being racist for disproportionately stopping and searching black people in London."
Yeah they tried that and it didn't work. Knife crime continued to rise at the height of stop and search. Black people were searched at 7x the average and thoroughly searched at 12x the average, which involves removing your clothing. Your figures about murder suspects, I repeat suspects, shows it to be around 4x the expected rate.
All stop and search did was criminalise young black people, particularly men, to the point where even Theresa May called it "unfair towards young black men" and they stop and search was on the decline.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/pol
If you're going to make arguments about problems within the black community then at the very least do some research. The problem is when you make ridiculous claims like "the police can't come down hard in case they're accused of being racist" that aren't rooted in evidence expect to be called out. The problem is you can't defend the indefensible and turn to self-imposed victimhood. |
The figures are not just about murder suspects, they are about murder victims also, you missed that out because those figures can’t be twisted to make out they are being victimised.
You’ve reeled off a few stop and search stats there but again, chose to leave out a very important stat which is almost half of all stop and searches were in London where there is a massive gang and knife problem in the black community. You talk about educating, then how about we educate the black community that unless the gang culture and knife crime stops then the police will stop and search anyone hanging around in a gang.
As I said it’s a London problem not a U.K. problem like you choose to believe. | | | |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 12:04 - Jun 19 with 1407 views | Drizzy |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 12:00 - Jun 19 by Jango |
The figures are not just about murder suspects, they are about murder victims also, you missed that out because those figures can’t be twisted to make out they are being victimised.
You’ve reeled off a few stop and search stats there but again, chose to leave out a very important stat which is almost half of all stop and searches were in London where there is a massive gang and knife problem in the black community. You talk about educating, then how about we educate the black community that unless the gang culture and knife crime stops then the police will stop and search anyone hanging around in a gang.
As I said it’s a London problem not a U.K. problem like you choose to believe. |
Black people are searched at disproportionate rates all over the UK, in fact the highest rate is in Dorset of all places.
It's not hard to back up your arguments with evidence. That is if the evidence actually exists. | |
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| Uncle Ben....Gone on 12:14 - Jun 19 with 1394 views | Highjack |
| Uncle Ben....Gone on 11:50 - Jun 19 by Drizzy |
Do you think John Lennon is a walrus? Genuine question. You've got an unhealthy obsession with Stormzy's song lyrics.
Also, donate some money to the anti-slavery charities while you're at it. |
I can confirm that John Lennon is not a walrus. | |
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- you did put it in context. You've got to admit it is a big shit to have this Union Jack flag as a way to sell Britain livery though. Add to this bell ends like Digby Jones and the rest of the Telegraph lickspittles saying about what a great idea it would be to build a new royal yacht whilst children starve. 