| Clydach murders on 22:17 - Oct 22 with 2636 views | trefelinjack |
Having just watched the documentary I am astounded that the prosecution withheld vital information from the defence as to not undermine their case. For me the TV programme casts even greater doubt on exhmrc1 flimsy arguments about the chain and the bloody 2 jury theory. In fact if I read anything from him/her that remotely mentions the chain or 2 trials. I am deleting this account and buying a Cardiff season ticket next year. Goodnight and justice for dai |  | |  |
| Clydach murders on 22:20 - Oct 22 with 2627 views | controversial_jack |
| Clydach murders on 22:17 - Oct 22 by trefelinjack |
Having just watched the documentary I am astounded that the prosecution withheld vital information from the defence as to not undermine their case. For me the TV programme casts even greater doubt on exhmrc1 flimsy arguments about the chain and the bloody 2 jury theory. In fact if I read anything from him/her that remotely mentions the chain or 2 trials. I am deleting this account and buying a Cardiff season ticket next year. Goodnight and justice for dai |
It's not the job of the police to prove innocence | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:33 - Oct 22 with 2603 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 22:17 - Oct 22 by trefelinjack |
Having just watched the documentary I am astounded that the prosecution withheld vital information from the defence as to not undermine their case. For me the TV programme casts even greater doubt on exhmrc1 flimsy arguments about the chain and the bloody 2 jury theory. In fact if I read anything from him/her that remotely mentions the chain or 2 trials. I am deleting this account and buying a Cardiff season ticket next year. Goodnight and justice for dai |
Shame you dont want justice for the family killed. The programme showed his repeated lies and efforts at a cover up. Constantly making false statements about his chain, where in the house he had been, and the time he got home. The juries heard this and came to their decision. The jury saw all his failures and didnt accept his story. The so called new witness even admitted to being in trouble with the law and probably has an axe to grind. Coming down from Gellionnen mountain at 4am in the morning. Why would anyone be up there. The only thing there is a couple of farms and a chapel. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:39 - Oct 22 with 2591 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 22:15 - Oct 22 by ItchySphincter |
Being horrible doesn’t make him guilty though? I’m not saying he’s not by the way, just taking up you point as it comes across that you think it does. |
You misunderstand. The fact that so many people seem to be sticking by him and think he’s innocent despite knowing he’s a right horrible bastard suggests that there’s more to this than meets the eye. The normal reaction would be let him rot. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 22:53 - Oct 22 with 2556 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 22:39 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
You misunderstand. The fact that so many people seem to be sticking by him and think he’s innocent despite knowing he’s a right horrible bastard suggests that there’s more to this than meets the eye. The normal reaction would be let him rot. |
The real problem is many are anti police and therefore want the police to be charged. Had the police never been arrested there wouldn't be the same support. Having said that it is one hell of a walk even when sober from the New Inn past the Masons and the edge of Morriston Hospital to Llangyfelach and there are no pavements so you walk on the road. In a drunken state it would be even further and yet there wasn't a witness who recalls someone walking there. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:56 - Oct 22 with 2549 views | Gowerjack |
| Clydach murders on 00:11 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
I don’t know an awful lot about this case but from what I’ve heard the argument seems to be that the evidence put to the court twice was somehow fabricated or altered by corrupt police officers protecting their own. We know this corruption happens, from Hillsborough to Stephen Lawrence and many others. I’m not necessarily suggesting it happened here but that seems to be the feeling amongst many and if it is the case that fabricated evidence was put to the court then of course the jury would convict twice. |
Yep
You're right
You don't know an awful lot about this case.. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 23:06 - Oct 22 with 2533 views | britferry |
Why would a witness sit on evidence for 20 odd years?
I thought the first 2 witnesses were credible, the 3rd, was a joke and let the program down.
Would be interesting to see if that sock gets re-tested, seems a crucial piece of evidence. | |
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| Clydach murders on 23:21 - Oct 22 with 2231 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 23:06 - Oct 22 by britferry |
Why would a witness sit on evidence for 20 odd years?
I thought the first 2 witnesses were credible, the 3rd, was a joke and let the program down.
Would be interesting to see if that sock gets re-tested, seems a crucial piece of evidence. |
It isnt just that. Having local knowledge it just seems so far fetched that at the actual time 4am someone decides to walk over the mountain there is a car coming down. There is nothing up there except a few farms and an old chapel. It isnt even used as a short cut. You can get to Pontardawe that way but there isnt a pub or basically anything there just farms. | | | |
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| Clydach murders on 23:45 - Oct 22 with 2196 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 22:56 - Oct 22 by Gowerjack |
Yep
You're right
You don't know an awful lot about this case.. |
Yes which is why I said I don’t know an awful lot about this case. | |
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| Clydach murders on 23:56 - Oct 22 with 2187 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 22:20 - Oct 22 by controversial_jack |
It's not the job of the police to prove innocence |
Disclosure has to be complete otherwise it’s an unfair trial. Which now looks to be the case. I didn’t realise that Morris wasn’t even a suspect for a year until the Lewis’s were eliminated from the police inquiries. That’s a long time for someone who seemed such a violent man to be then thought of as a possible suspect. He didn’t leave the pub til 11.30, had 8 pints inside him and speed and walked a half a mile or more , broke in, killed the old woman , changed a fuse in the house before Mandy and her daughters got home . All in 18 minutes. That’s what really got me thinking tonight. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 00:04 - Oct 23 with 2179 views | Jack123 |
Interesting, I wasn't very impressed with the fella who come forward after all this time, I would guess that counts for nothing!
But I wasn't aware of the bloody handprint found, that made me think. Surely some top guy could make sense of the handprint and either rule out morris, or prove his guilt beyond doubt. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 00:06 - Oct 23 with 2176 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 00:04 - Oct 23 by Jack123 |
Interesting, I wasn't very impressed with the fella who come forward after all this time, I would guess that counts for nothing!
But I wasn't aware of the bloody handprint found, that made me think. Surely some top guy could make sense of the handprint and either rule out morris, or prove his guilt beyond doubt. |
If it’s suppressed as evidence it’s surely illegal ? It’s disclosure to the jury could have had the case against Morris thrown out. | |
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| Clydach murders on 00:38 - Oct 23 with 2162 views | Jack123 |
| Clydach murders on 00:06 - Oct 23 by Brynmill_Jack |
If it’s suppressed as evidence it’s surely illegal ? It’s disclosure to the jury could have had the case against Morris thrown out. |
I would think so!! But didn't they say on the programme that the prosecution ruled that out or something like that? Surely the prosecution have no right to rule out damming evidence.
Edit, Did they say the jury were told to rule that out? [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 0:46]
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| Clydach murders on 00:53 - Oct 23 with 2154 views | Brian_Laudrup |
That e-fit, that hasn't been shown at either trial! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 01:43 - Oct 23 with 2134 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 00:53 - Oct 23 by Brian_Laudrup |
That e-fit, that hasn't been shown at either trial! |
Now that truly is staggering | |
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| Clydach murders on 02:15 - Oct 23 with 2126 views | Jack123 |
| Clydach murders on 01:43 - Oct 23 by Brynmill_Jack |
Now that truly is staggering |
It is, but it's also isn't, when you think about it, the defence case can hardly say, here's an efit it must have been him, he was there..That's the police job.
So i guess there is no way they could present an efit in court?
It wasn't him!! It was him..
And I will say,I could spend hours and hours on this, reading the evidence and it still makes no sense..
[Post edited 23 Oct 2020 2:28]
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| Clydach murders on 05:58 - Oct 23 with 2104 views | Brian_Laudrup |
| Clydach murders on 02:15 - Oct 23 by Jack123 |
It is, but it's also isn't, when you think about it, the defence case can hardly say, here's an efit it must have been him, he was there..That's the police job.
So i guess there is no way they could present an efit in court?
It wasn't him!! It was him..
And I will say,I could spend hours and hours on this, reading the evidence and it still makes no sense..
[Post edited 23 Oct 2020 2:28]
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"That's the police job."
I suppose it is, and it looks the spitting image of one of their officers. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 07:35 - Oct 23 with 2063 views | trampie |
Who knows if he did it but that is the point, did the jury get it wrong, did the jury get it right but in error due to 'beyond reasonable doubt', was what was presented fair and was it correct to reach a guilty verdict based on that evidence. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 07:38 - Oct 23 with 2058 views | trampie |
If it was in Scotland would the jury returned a 'not proven' verdict in this case I wonder.
Which is basically we don't think you are innocent but the trial has not proved you guilty beyond reasonable doubt/ we don't know if you are innocent or guilty. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 9:38]
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| Clydach murders on 07:44 - Oct 23 with 2050 views | trampie |
I wonder who the expert at the end thinks who might have done it, the one they asked to profile the killer...hmm | |
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| Clydach murders on 07:47 - Oct 23 with 2045 views | trampie |
Was there more than one person involved in the killings I wonder, who knows hey or was it simply Morris all along. | |
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| Clydach murders on 08:01 - Oct 23 with 2035 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 00:04 - Oct 23 by Jack123 |
Interesting, I wasn't very impressed with the fella who come forward after all this time, I would guess that counts for nothing!
But I wasn't aware of the bloody handprint found, that made me think. Surely some top guy could make sense of the handprint and either rule out morris, or prove his guilt beyond doubt. |
He couldnt have had a more top guy. His barrister for the second trial was Michael Mansfield QC. Barrister for the rich and famous and is well known for turning over miscarriages of justice including IRA cases and the Cardiff case. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 08:04 - Oct 23 with 2026 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 08:01 - Oct 23 by exhmrc1 |
He couldnt have had a more top guy. His barrister for the second trial was Michael Mansfield QC. Barrister for the rich and famous and is well known for turning over miscarriages of justice including IRA cases and the Cardiff case. |
He failed him made lots of mistakes.
Didn't focus on the timeline which alone might have been good enough to have got his client off.. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 8:27]
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| Clydach murders on 08:18 - Oct 23 with 2008 views | trefelinjack |
| Clydach murders on 23:21 - Oct 22 by exhmrc1 |
It isnt just that. Having local knowledge it just seems so far fetched that at the actual time 4am someone decides to walk over the mountain there is a car coming down. There is nothing up there except a few farms and an old chapel. It isnt even used as a short cut. You can get to Pontardawe that way but there isnt a pub or basically anything there just farms. |
Yes very secluded isn't it. The perfect place to go to maybe dump evidence, avoid people after a crime... | | | |
| Clydach murders on 08:59 - Oct 23 with 1970 views | 1983 |
| Clydach murders on 07:47 - Oct 23 by trampie |
Was there more than one person involved in the killings I wonder, who knows hey or was it simply Morris all along. |
I've always thought about something like this, Mandy led a very colourful life nothing wrong with that but after following the case and reading the books she knew a lot of people & had relationships with a lot of people. Maybe she knew something she wasn't supposed to know. Morris the local idiot could he have done all that pizzed as a fart off his nut on speed? maybe not The wishy washy Lewis family? maybe not
I always thought there was a 3rd party as this was no random of the cuff killing but a very calculated killing
As for fella in the car driving from the Chapel area that early in the morning anyone in that area of Swansea of a certain age would know that the white chapel was a place for youngsters to meet up drink and smoke weed so not so ridiculous to be driving around there Saturday night/ Sunday morning |  |
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