| Clydach murders on 20:04 - Oct 28 with 2088 views | Flashberryjack |
| Clydach murders on 19:51 - Oct 28 by Whiterockin |
There is evidence in storage where at the time no DNA could be found. DNA has moved on so much in the last 20 years IN MY OPINION DNA may now be found on these items. If everyone is so sure of the innocence or guilt of various parties. What harm would it do to have these items checked. It may help in the long term development of DNA tracing.
Please do not respond with an essay of what you have already posted. |
As stated earlier "cross contamination" would be an issue, especially if Morris has admitted being in the house. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 20:07 - Oct 28 with 2080 views | Whiterockin |
| Clydach murders on 20:04 - Oct 28 by Flashberryjack |
As stated earlier "cross contamination" would be an issue, especially if Morris has admitted being in the house. |
Could be an issue, not would be an issue and that would depend on who's DNA if any was found. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 20:09 - Oct 28 with 2074 views | Yyy |
| Clydach murders on 19:51 - Oct 28 by Whiterockin |
There is evidence in storage where at the time no DNA could be found. DNA has moved on so much in the last 20 years IN MY OPINION DNA may now be found on these items. If everyone is so sure of the innocence or guilt of various parties. What harm would it do to have these items checked. It may help in the long term development of DNA tracing.
Please do not respond with an essay of what you have already posted. |
A quick google showed there was dna found in 2014 of male origin but had been tested no further.Morris put this to the CCRC in a bid for appeal,asking for ut to be tested afainst him.
The DNA was found on spent matches used to start the fire
a watch placed on mandys wrist
The pole used and the clothes mandy had worn that night.
The CCRC dismissed the case as SWP said that the samples hadn't been stored properly so could not be tested.Wether this is a deliberate act by SWP to hide/hinder evidence or just bad luck for morris is anyobes guess |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 20:10 - Oct 28 with 2063 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 20:00 - Oct 28 by exhmrc1 |
If he didnt do it then he appeals and proves it. Nothing to do with the Lewis family but his defence team and some on here try to make that the case. The recent programme made the case of 3 supposed sightings of Stephen Lewis but he is not the one found guilty. |
That's it, he has to now prove it because he was found guilty, not a criticism but an observation, initially the prosecution have to prove guilt, if there is a miscarriage of justice in the UK, once you are done it's then hard to get it overturned, hence why multiple appeals, retrials do not necessarily underline someone's guilt, the majority of the public might think so but the opposite can be true and it could be a sign of a borderline initial conviction. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 20:13 - Oct 28 with 2052 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 20:09 - Oct 28 by Yyy |
A quick google showed there was dna found in 2014 of male origin but had been tested no further.Morris put this to the CCRC in a bid for appeal,asking for ut to be tested afainst him.
The DNA was found on spent matches used to start the fire
a watch placed on mandys wrist
The pole used and the clothes mandy had worn that night.
The CCRC dismissed the case as SWP said that the samples hadn't been stored properly so could not be tested.Wether this is a deliberate act by SWP to hide/hinder evidence or just bad luck for morris is anyobes guess |
It's shocking, honest to goodness shocking. | |
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| Clydach murders on 20:15 - Oct 28 with 2053 views | Yyy |
| Clydach murders on 20:09 - Oct 28 by Yyy |
A quick google showed there was dna found in 2014 of male origin but had been tested no further.Morris put this to the CCRC in a bid for appeal,asking for ut to be tested afainst him.
The DNA was found on spent matches used to start the fire
a watch placed on mandys wrist
The pole used and the clothes mandy had worn that night.
The CCRC dismissed the case as SWP said that the samples hadn't been stored properly so could not be tested.Wether this is a deliberate act by SWP to hide/hinder evidence or just bad luck for morris is anyobes guess |
For clarity i am firmly on the fence with regards to his innocence or guilt.
Morris had nothing to lose by requesting the dna was tested.
Not his good chance of getting his conviction overturned.
If it turned out to be his...well he would just stay where he is.He has got to running out of avenues to have his conviction looked at again. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 20:19 - Oct 28 with 2031 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 19:51 - Oct 28 by Flashberryjack |
Didn't realise you were a bit of a Sherlock either. |
I’m not saying I’m and pert, clearly I am not, what I and others can see is that there appears to be enough reasonable doubt to get an appeal. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 20:23 - Oct 28 with 2027 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 19:27 - Oct 28 by Flashberryjack |
I wouldn't say he's blinkered, just knows a lot more about the case than most on here. |
He "knows" nothing different from the rest of us.
He wasn't in that courtroom.
He just types paragraph after paragraph, makes loads of assumptions, then criticises others for doing the same.
The YYY poster has called out some of his so called facts as rubbish.
It's funny how we align ourselves to those that we deem to be on "our side". |  |
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| Clydach murders on 20:29 - Oct 28 with 2011 views | Yyy |
| Clydach murders on 19:30 - Oct 28 by exhmrc1 |
The defence tried to suggest it could be her not the prosecution. They had already ruled her out and ended up making apologies. The bottom line remains. Morris has been found guilty. He claims he didnt do it. This is nothing to do with the Lewis family but you keep raising things like where did the policeman go missing for hours or who had the ability to use a pole or who had the forensic knowledge to clean up. None of these alter the fact. Morris was found guilty and it is whether he is guilty or not and the Lewis family are not involved in that. For example the Inspectors actions whatever he did has nothing to do with the verdict. It might well be wrong and a disciplinary matter but doesnt mean he committed murder. |
In the judges summing up of the case he said to the jury they had seen the murder in the witness box...so yes it is them or him.
If he guilty he's guilty,but if he's not it is one or a combination of the three Lewis's.
So the issues surrounding the lewis are very much relevant to the case.
If morris is innocent at least some of the lewis are gulity.in the same respect if all three Lewis are innocent,then mirrus is gulity.
There is no unknown party that could be the murder with this case | | | |
| Clydach murders on 21:52 - Oct 28 with 1942 views | Flashberryjack |
| Clydach murders on 20:23 - Oct 28 by Neath_Jack |
He "knows" nothing different from the rest of us.
He wasn't in that courtroom.
He just types paragraph after paragraph, makes loads of assumptions, then criticises others for doing the same.
The YYY poster has called out some of his so called facts as rubbish.
It's funny how we align ourselves to those that we deem to be on "our side". |
How do you know he knows nothing different to the rest of us ?
Unless he's stated earlier in the thread, how do you know he wasn't in the courtroom ?
And yes, people do align to those we deem to be on our side, we all do it quite often. | |
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| Clydach murders on 22:04 - Oct 28 with 1929 views | Garyjack |
| Clydach murders on 20:29 - Oct 28 by Yyy |
In the judges summing up of the case he said to the jury they had seen the murder in the witness box...so yes it is them or him.
If he guilty he's guilty,but if he's not it is one or a combination of the three Lewis's.
So the issues surrounding the lewis are very much relevant to the case.
If morris is innocent at least some of the lewis are gulity.in the same respect if all three Lewis are innocent,then mirrus is gulity.
There is no unknown party that could be the murder with this case |
I may be wrong, but to me that is a clear direction from the judge who has heard all the evidence, for the jury to find him guilty. |  | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:50 - Oct 28 with 1887 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 20:10 - Oct 28 by trampie |
That's it, he has to now prove it because he was found guilty, not a criticism but an observation, initially the prosecution have to prove guilt, if there is a miscarriage of justice in the UK, once you are done it's then hard to get it overturned, hence why multiple appeals, retrials do not necessarily underline someone's guilt, the majority of the public might think so but the opposite can be true and it could be a sign of a borderline initial conviction. |
It wasnt a borderline conviction. It was 2 unanimous verdicts. That it was the defence who tried to claim the Lewis family were the murderers is included in this article from the BBC at the time.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2061112.stm | | | |
| Clydach murders on 07:11 - Oct 29 with 1804 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 20:29 - Oct 28 by Yyy |
In the judges summing up of the case he said to the jury they had seen the murder in the witness box...so yes it is them or him.
If he guilty he's guilty,but if he's not it is one or a combination of the three Lewis's.
So the issues surrounding the lewis are very much relevant to the case.
If morris is innocent at least some of the lewis are gulity.in the same respect if all three Lewis are innocent,then mirrus is gulity.
There is no unknown party that could be the murder with this case |
That is shocking from the judge, to tell the jury you have seen the murderer in the box when only one of them was on trial, with the case being 10 times, a 100 times or a 1000 times more about Morris (as he was on trial) than the others.
There was even said to be unidentified DNA knocking about, I haven't seen the words miss trial be used as regards the second case but that does not sound like that is fair or good practice to me. | |
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| Clydach murders on 07:32 - Oct 29 with 1794 views | trampie |
Morris had the judges sentence reduced after the second court case after 3 judges found that the trial judge hadn't followed proper sentencing guidelines, what is going on with this case hey. | |
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| Clydach murders on 07:47 - Oct 29 with 1792 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 07:32 - Oct 29 by trampie |
Morris had the judges sentence reduced after the second court case after 3 judges found that the trial judge hadn't followed proper sentencing guidelines, what is going on with this case hey. |
There you go.
Surely, even the most sensible of people can see that his guilt is suspect. | |
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| Clydach murders on 08:28 - Oct 29 with 1784 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 20:04 - Oct 28 by Flashberryjack |
As stated earlier "cross contamination" would be an issue, especially if Morris has admitted being in the house. |
There could have been a lot of people’s dna in that house. There seems to have been a lot of shagging going on in there. Which is not a criticism by the way. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 08:44 - Oct 29 with 1775 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 07:11 - Oct 29 by trampie |
That is shocking from the judge, to tell the jury you have seen the murderer in the box when only one of them was on trial, with the case being 10 times, a 100 times or a 1000 times more about Morris (as he was on trial) than the others.
There was even said to be unidentified DNA knocking about, I haven't seen the words miss trial be used as regards the second case but that does not sound like that is fair or good practice to me. |
That was Morris' defence teams claim. He has to put that to the jury. Otherwise he would have had to rule their evidence inadmissable which no doubt you and others would then say was unfair.
The Lewis family were not trial Morris was yet his defence team tried to make out they were. Guess what the juries rejected the defence claim and found him guilty. It is absolutely disgusting that anybody should be allowed to try to make someone guilty who wasnt charged and that would apply to anyone not just the Lewis family. The defence team tried everything but it failed. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 08:50 - Oct 29 with 1769 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 07:32 - Oct 29 by trampie |
Morris had the judges sentence reduced after the second court case after 3 judges found that the trial judge hadn't followed proper sentencing guidelines, what is going on with this case hey. |
Again you are wrong Morris was given a whole life sentence like many others. It was decided in the European Courts that there had to be fixed term sentences and that whole life sentences werent acceptable. Hence the judges changed his appeal to a fixed term like in many other cases. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 08:57 - Oct 29 with 1764 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 07:47 - Oct 29 by Andy1300 |
There you go.
Surely, even the most sensible of people can see that his guilt is suspect. |
Not at all if the judges felt it was suspect. They would have ordered a retrial. This was purely a reaction to the European Court not accepting life sentencing. Even after 32 years he might not be released. He can apply to the Parole Board and it will be for them to decide. He has a life sentence which is normally 15 years but the judges can impose longer sentences and if you look at life sentences today there is a recommendation for the minimum number of years to be served. Nothing to do with the Morris case. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 09:06 - Oct 29 with 1758 views | Yyy |
| Clydach murders on 08:50 - Oct 29 by exhmrc1 |
Again you are wrong Morris was given a whole life sentence like many others. It was decided in the European Courts that there had to be fixed term sentences and that whole life sentences werent acceptable. Hence the judges changed his appeal to a fixed term like in many other cases. |
Actually your wrong!!!!
The second judges sentence was greater than the first,when a retrial is ordered a sentence is not allowed to be greater than the original.
Orginal was minimum of 35 year
Second was life sentence with no minimum term.
Sentence was the reduced to 32years as the second judge hadn't followed correct sentencing.
So yes it was changed to a minimum fixed term but that was because of the error of the judge on the second. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 09:53 - Oct 29 with 1720 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 08:50 - Oct 29 by exhmrc1 |
Again you are wrong Morris was given a whole life sentence like many others. It was decided in the European Courts that there had to be fixed term sentences and that whole life sentences werent acceptable. Hence the judges changed his appeal to a fixed term like in many other cases. |
Actually it's you that is wrong the judge in the second trial gave a stiffer sentence than what Morris received in the first trial which apparently go's against guidelines, does that draw into question how the whole thing was adjudicated I wonder....hmm | |
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| Clydach murders on 10:53 - Oct 29 with 1701 views | majorraglan |
| Clydach murders on 08:44 - Oct 29 by exhmrc1 |
That was Morris' defence teams claim. He has to put that to the jury. Otherwise he would have had to rule their evidence inadmissable which no doubt you and others would then say was unfair.
The Lewis family were not trial Morris was yet his defence team tried to make out they were. Guess what the juries rejected the defence claim and found him guilty. It is absolutely disgusting that anybody should be allowed to try to make someone guilty who wasnt charged and that would apply to anyone not just the Lewis family. The defence team tried everything but it failed. |
The prosecution have to prove beyond reasonable doubt, the defence don’t have to prove anything, all they need to do is create sufficient doubt in the mind of the jury. They may do that by questioning the credibility of the evidence and or the character of witnesses. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 11:38 - Oct 29 with 1683 views | Yyy |
| Clydach murders on 22:04 - Oct 28 by Garyjack |
I may be wrong, but to me that is a clear direction from the judge who has heard all the evidence, for the jury to find him guilty. |
Maybe it was clear direction as you say, but if so morris would be then be entitled to a retrial or appeal as the judge is not surposed to lead the jury to reach a certain verdict. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 11:49 - Oct 29 with 1678 views | whiterock |
WELDER Karl Wassell is lucky to be alive after David Morris came to call.
Just like tragic Mandy Power and her family he was the victim of a frenzied Morris attack.
Just like Mandy, Katie, Emily and Doris he was battered over the head with an iron bar.
Just like them he begged for mercy but was shown none.
But unlike the victims of the brutal Clydach killings, Karl lived to tell the tale - but only just.
His recovery from a five-hour brain op was hailed a miracle.
He needed 66 stitches to patch up his smashed skull and was in intensive care for a week.
He only escaped with his life after jumping from a first floor window and dialling 999.
Karl, 37, was attacked three years before Morris bludgeoned Mandy Power and her family to death.
He was with a pal in the flat above Morris's when there was a knock on the door.
Karl said: "I was tuning in a video when the next thing I knew I felt something hit me on the back of my head.
"I felt every blow, eight altogether. When I turned to see what was happening he hit me in the front of the head.
"He kept on beating me round the body. I had my arms up trying to protect myself.
"I was pleading with him to stop but he just kept screaming, 'I'm going to have you'. Suddenly he dropped the bar by the side of me and turned and went out the door.
"We locked the door but he kicked it in and came back with a hammer to finish the job.
"I was terrified. As soon as I heard the door crash open I jumped out of the window.
"I ran about a quarter of a mile to the phone box and called for an ambulance."
Dad-of-two Karl, from south Wales, was taken to Morriston hospital after the September 1996 attack.
He underwent major brain and skull surgery and even today suffers from blinding headaches.
But Morris escaped jail after he was found not guilty of wounding and wounding with intent in March 1997.
He told Swansea Crown Court he was acting in self defence.
Karl said: "If he had gone down for what he did to me that woman and her family would still be alive today."
Karl's sentiments were echoed by Morris's local councillor Ioan Richard who lived opposite the killer in Craigcefnparc.
He said: "He was a man known for violence and being frenzied. He was known as a weapons man." | | | |
| Clydach murders on 12:01 - Oct 29 with 1667 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 09:06 - Oct 29 by Yyy |
Actually your wrong!!!!
The second judges sentence was greater than the first,when a retrial is ordered a sentence is not allowed to be greater than the original.
Orginal was minimum of 35 year
Second was life sentence with no minimum term.
Sentence was the reduced to 32years as the second judge hadn't followed correct sentencing.
So yes it was changed to a minimum fixed term but that was because of the error of the judge on the second. |
People on here seem to think Morris is innocent or it is a police set.
The sentence the Appeal Court has given him is double the punishment that of the Swansea hard man who murdered the guy on High Street. It is longer than most get yet Andy seems to think the reduced sentence somehow proves his innocence. How many have looked at this case and how many have decided he is guilty. Then some of you on here who weren't at the trial think they know better.
The incident with Wassell wasn't the only. Mandy Jewell had made comments to the police as well.
Mr Harrington also accused Ms Jewell of lying to the police and the jury when she said there was only a small amount of violence between her and Mr Morris.
The court heard from a statement Ms Jewell had made to police before the murders accusing him of attacking her and threatening to kill her, and threatening to put a tyre over her head.
Mr Morris also threatened to burn her house down, and she had accused him of burning all her clothes, Mr Harrington said. | | | |
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