| Garry Monk 16:20 - Jan 8 with 7942 views | veritas |
I'm not sure he is the right long-term manager for us. I've watched the swans for a while now and we seem to be going backwards in the quality of our football and some tactical decisions leave a lot to be desired.
I look at Monk and I see a coach, I don't see a manager. I hope I'm proved wrong but I can't see us moving forward with Monk and the attacking passing football will be a thing of the past if we don't watch it. |  | | |  |
| Garry Monk on 09:28 - Jan 9 with 1642 views | Phil_S |
For me this is simple
Garry Monk is doing a good job at this point in time.
Does that mean he will be in 12 months time? I hope so but its not guaranteed
Does it mean that we could do no better? Of course not, we have thrown away some crazy points this season so we could be higher than 9th had this not happened or some of the bad decisions had gone our way
Am I happy with the way that it has gone this season? Delighted but frustrated at some points.
Good times |  | | |
| Garry Monk on 09:31 - Jan 9 with 1631 views | monmouth |
| Garry Monk on 09:28 - Jan 9 by Phil_S |
For me this is simple
Garry Monk is doing a good job at this point in time.
Does that mean he will be in 12 months time? I hope so but its not guaranteed
Does it mean that we could do no better? Of course not, we have thrown away some crazy points this season so we could be higher than 9th had this not happened or some of the bad decisions had gone our way
Am I happy with the way that it has gone this season? Delighted but frustrated at some points.
Good times |
Very elegantly put.
Almost chic. |  |
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| Garry Monk on 09:34 - Jan 9 with 1618 views | Starsky |
| Garry Monk on 09:31 - Jan 9 by monmouth |
Very elegantly put.
Almost chic. |
"Everybody dance do -do -do- clap your hands clap your hands" |  |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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| Garry Monk on 09:36 - Jan 9 with 1608 views | monmouth |
| Garry Monk on 09:34 - Jan 9 by Starsky |
"Everybody dance do -do -do- clap your hands clap your hands" |
Phew, I'm glad there's someone else old enough and square enough to remember. | |
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| Garry Monk on 09:37 - Jan 9 with 1602 views | Phil_S |
| Garry Monk on 09:31 - Jan 9 by monmouth |
Very elegantly put.
Almost chic. |
I'm after your title for next year!  | | | |
| Garry Monk on 09:43 - Jan 9 with 1584 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Garry Monk on 22:50 - Jan 8 by monmouth |
I can see what you are getting at and yes I tentatively agree with the underlying principle. I don't want to be bored for a few places higher, and I certainly don't want to spend 70% of every match (or after we go ahead) with a cork up my backside because we've invited the opposition onto us like the charge of the light brigade.
BUT
I don't think the 'sexy football' point is at all clear cut. We played garbage under Rodgers and laudrup as well as brilliantly in patches and we have done so this season under Monk. We had many more passes and possession than Liverpool at Anfield (and that's never happened before I don't think) and got humped. That wasn't very good to watch. Some of the goals we have scored this season have been utterly breathtaking, with much better football than we often saw previously. The 'fall back and defend for long periods' is straight out of the Rodgers playbook too. Hell, we did it in the play off final and I might never recover from that even though we won.
So I think we are in danger of inventing these halcyon days that we are then whining about not living up to. I think we are doing fine, more than fine, and will get better, so I think your question is moot. But if it really was a choice between thrilling entertainment and guaranteed 13th or dour boredom and finishing 9th then hell, yeah, I'm with you.
But it isn't. |
You can't cite the performance at Anfield as being "sexy football" as Rockin is alluding to because whilst we had more possession it was usually between the back four and our keeper. Almost every time the ball managed to find it's way into midfield we lost it! We looked clueless up there. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Garry Monk on 09:48 - Jan 9 with 1570 views | Starsky |
| Garry Monk on 09:37 - Jan 9 by Phil_S |
I'm after your title for next year! |
Stay on topic or you're next PS.... | |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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| Garry Monk on 09:56 - Jan 9 with 1552 views | veritas |
Thank you for your comments guys, I'm just settling in I'm not here to provoke a reaction. I have follow the Swans for over 20 years and my views are based on where I see the club going over the next 12-18 months not right this moment.
I have a lot of respect for Garry and I hope I'm proved wrong. I however worry that I will be proved right in the end and those calling me a bluebird will have changed their tune. | | | |
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| Garry Monk on 10:01 - Jan 9 with 1539 views | ymaohyd |
| Garry Monk on 09:28 - Jan 9 by Phil_S |
For me this is simple
Garry Monk is doing a good job at this point in time.
Does that mean he will be in 12 months time? I hope so but its not guaranteed
Does it mean that we could do no better? Of course not, we have thrown away some crazy points this season so we could be higher than 9th had this not happened or some of the bad decisions had gone our way
Am I happy with the way that it has gone this season? Delighted but frustrated at some points.
Good times |
Spot on.
There are no guarantees in football, far from it.
Michael Laudrup won us our first major trophy, gained some amazing wins and at times had us playing the best football I've ever seen a Swans team play, that first half against West Brom last season at home..unbelievable!
Over a calendar year though he lit it slip, his results were relegation form and his work ethic, not great. So the guarantee that ML unless he chose to leave would be around for a few more years was gone, the board acted decisively and who knows if Monk saved us or we would have been fine under Laudrup...bottom line is once again the Swans stayed up.
As well (in my opinion) as Garry Monk has done, if results don't go our way, the same fate (and rightly so) will fall on him. I should imagine it will be done with a far heavier heart but it will be done all the same. |  |
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| Garry Monk on 10:04 - Jan 9 with 1532 views | veritas |
| Garry Monk on 10:01 - Jan 9 by ymaohyd |
Spot on.
There are no guarantees in football, far from it.
Michael Laudrup won us our first major trophy, gained some amazing wins and at times had us playing the best football I've ever seen a Swans team play, that first half against West Brom last season at home..unbelievable!
Over a calendar year though he lit it slip, his results were relegation form and his work ethic, not great. So the guarantee that ML unless he chose to leave would be around for a few more years was gone, the board acted decisively and who knows if Monk saved us or we would have been fine under Laudrup...bottom line is once again the Swans stayed up.
As well (in my opinion) as Garry Monk has done, if results don't go our way, the same fate (and rightly so) will fall on him. I should imagine it will be done with a far heavier heart but it will be done all the same. |
By this post you are basically hoping for success, rather than believing in success.
When e.g. Rodgers was here I had no qualms about him being a long-term appointment who we could back financially. Of course because he was good he left.
As I've said to you in a previous post I doubt Monk will get those advances and you will no doubt see him as "loyal" when in reality like all humans he would leave to better himself if given the chance. | | | |
| Garry Monk on 10:05 - Jan 9 with 1529 views | Phil_S |
| Garry Monk on 09:48 - Jan 9 by Starsky |
Stay on topic or you're next PS.... |
Sorry boss  | | | |
| Garry Monk on 10:08 - Jan 9 with 1517 views | Starsky |
Hi Rockin, good to see you back again...
I think part of the problem of maintaining our easy on the eye gameplay is the limitations of some players who are probably not good enough anymore.
We have such pace in the side but have no pace in our full backs and that's not helping things at the moment.
We should have invested in new blood with at least 2 full backs that would compliment our gameplay.
When teams push up and stop us playing, our game suddenly looks naive and desperate. It's happened under all our managers since Martinez introduced this style.
Interesting to read the latest media rumblings coming from Goodison park about the players and fans wanting a plan B.
We have, on times witnessed some sublime play this season. The interplay between Siggy and Bony at times has been world class. Some of the goals we've scored this season have been sublime.
On the whole, we have done brilliantly well under Garry Monk. Other first time managers, for example, at Norwich and Spurs have come and gone. Garry seems to be learning quickly but no doubt had a lot more to learn.
If in the future, results and our league position plummets, then I'm sure that GMs position will be just as precarious as any other manager struggling in the bottom 3.
We're miles away from that though aren't we? So enjoyo. | |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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| Garry Monk on 12:01 - Jan 9 with 1463 views | C_jack |
We're coming to the end of a cycle, as happens in football. Players that our success has been built on such as Williams, Britton, Rangel and Dyer, are coming to the end of their time with us. We've been Iucky to have the continuity for so many years.
What worries me, is the next cycle, and the process of finding the next players to continue the philosophy/style we've enjoyed so much. It wouldn't be an easy job for many.
GM has steadied the ship, a ship he knows very well, but has he got the ability to steer it in a new direction into the unknown? |  |
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| Garry Monk on 12:57 - Jan 9 with 1425 views | ApeShit |
| Garry Monk on 12:01 - Jan 9 by C_jack |
We're coming to the end of a cycle, as happens in football. Players that our success has been built on such as Williams, Britton, Rangel and Dyer, are coming to the end of their time with us. We've been Iucky to have the continuity for so many years.
What worries me, is the next cycle, and the process of finding the next players to continue the philosophy/style we've enjoyed so much. It wouldn't be an easy job for many.
GM has steadied the ship, a ship he knows very well, but has he got the ability to steer it in a new direction into the unknown? |
I agree with this, but I deserves a shot. |  | | |
| Garry Monk on 13:36 - Jan 9 with 1397 views | veritas |
| Garry Monk on 12:01 - Jan 9 by C_jack |
We're coming to the end of a cycle, as happens in football. Players that our success has been built on such as Williams, Britton, Rangel and Dyer, are coming to the end of their time with us. We've been Iucky to have the continuity for so many years.
What worries me, is the next cycle, and the process of finding the next players to continue the philosophy/style we've enjoyed so much. It wouldn't be an easy job for many.
GM has steadied the ship, a ship he knows very well, but has he got the ability to steer it in a new direction into the unknown? |
You've nailed it there mate. Exactly what I was trying to say. | | | |
| Garry Monk on 13:56 - Jan 9 with 1378 views | C_jack |
| Garry Monk on 13:36 - Jan 9 by veritas |
You've nailed it there mate. Exactly what I was trying to say. |
It's a genuine concern.
It's a mutual benefit to both parties at the moment, having Garry works for the set up of the club, and vice versa, the set up works for Garry. If he was to have gone into another club this season, such as a Hull/WBA, would he have had the same success? it's difficult to say
Over the years (starting at RM for arguments sake), we've been a slowly built jigsaw with various managers coming along, and putting the pieces into place. Some would argue that there are still many more pieces to be put in, but I'm of the belief that it's close to complete, and we're on the verge of an exciting time where we're starting to look towards a new long term picture, one that is completely different to the one started all those years ago.
Is GM the right man to put the very important, first pieces in place? Time will certainly tell | |
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| Garry Monk on 14:00 - Jan 9 with 1363 views | veritas |
| Garry Monk on 13:56 - Jan 9 by C_jack |
It's a genuine concern.
It's a mutual benefit to both parties at the moment, having Garry works for the set up of the club, and vice versa, the set up works for Garry. If he was to have gone into another club this season, such as a Hull/WBA, would he have had the same success? it's difficult to say
Over the years (starting at RM for arguments sake), we've been a slowly built jigsaw with various managers coming along, and putting the pieces into place. Some would argue that there are still many more pieces to be put in, but I'm of the belief that it's close to complete, and we're on the verge of an exciting time where we're starting to look towards a new long term picture, one that is completely different to the one started all those years ago.
Is GM the right man to put the very important, first pieces in place? Time will certainly tell |
Absolutely. I do think it was a very safe choice, it's pretty obvious why Garry was picked - Huw is Director of football in all but name. | | | |
| Garry Monk on 14:03 - Jan 9 with 1359 views | FearOfAJackPlanet |
| Garry Monk on 13:56 - Jan 9 by C_jack |
It's a genuine concern.
It's a mutual benefit to both parties at the moment, having Garry works for the set up of the club, and vice versa, the set up works for Garry. If he was to have gone into another club this season, such as a Hull/WBA, would he have had the same success? it's difficult to say
Over the years (starting at RM for arguments sake), we've been a slowly built jigsaw with various managers coming along, and putting the pieces into place. Some would argue that there are still many more pieces to be put in, but I'm of the belief that it's close to complete, and we're on the verge of an exciting time where we're starting to look towards a new long term picture, one that is completely different to the one started all those years ago.
Is GM the right man to put the very important, first pieces in place? Time will certainly tell |
I assume in that last sentence you mean final pieces? As that would tie in with the paragraph above about 'it' being close to complete.
What are these final pieces, in your view? [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 14:04]
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| Garry Monk on 14:09 - Jan 9 with 1345 views | monmouth |
| Garry Monk on 14:03 - Jan 9 by FearOfAJackPlanet |
I assume in that last sentence you mean final pieces? As that would tie in with the paragraph above about 'it' being close to complete.
What are these final pieces, in your view? [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 14:04]
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Monk talks a lot about the next group of players and securing the future through them (see interview yesterday). Neither Martinez or Rodgers gave a sh1t about that did they? Laudrup only brought in ben because he had to.
I think that the future of the club is more on the agenda under GM than it ever has been. Whether he can 'teach' them the required Swansea style is to be seen but I can't see anyone better equipped to oversee that. he has seen it all from the other perspective after all.
I'm starting to lose track of what we are really arguing about here, or even if there is an argument at all. | |
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| Garry Monk on 14:13 - Jan 9 with 1339 views | veritas |
I'd be happy to change manager every couple of years and they get poached than have someone stay for 6 years or so because that would suggest mediocrity rather than progression. Good managers only stay a while at top clubs because they're at top clubs. | | | |
| Garry Monk on 14:40 - Jan 9 with 1313 views | FearOfAJackPlanet |
| Garry Monk on 14:09 - Jan 9 by monmouth |
Monk talks a lot about the next group of players and securing the future through them (see interview yesterday). Neither Martinez or Rodgers gave a sh1t about that did they? Laudrup only brought in ben because he had to.
I think that the future of the club is more on the agenda under GM than it ever has been. Whether he can 'teach' them the required Swansea style is to be seen but I can't see anyone better equipped to oversee that. he has seen it all from the other perspective after all.
I'm starting to lose track of what we are really arguing about here, or even if there is an argument at all. |
The problem with aiming to bring through a new generation of players for a club like ours is that in the end, they'll still go the same way as Wilf et al - straight out the door when a big club comes in. The best we can hope for is to ape Southampton and aim to bring through a constant stream of talent that we can sell for big bucks to keep the club going. It's not a very romantic way to look at things, but as has been shown, the Saints can't hold on to the talent they bring through, why would we be any different?
We're lucky with our recent core, the likes of Ash, Leon, Rangel, Monk himself, in that they rose with us through the leagues and by the time we got to the top league, were so entrenched at the club, and into or approaching their 30s...that they were unlikely to be tempted away or pursued by big teams.
Any new generation we bring up are not going to have that loyalty or connection to us - they'll be off in a shot when a big club comes in (Ben Davies - season ticket holder, off at the first opportunity). I don't think we can rely on a core of players to be brought through to keep the 'Swansea way' flag flying in the way the old guard have done. Wasn't it a similar story in the late 70s early 80s? (core of players rose up the leagues).
I think the future of the club on the playing side in this league is more likely to be a state of constant chaos, ins outs, shop windows for aspiring players than a stable 'new generation' coming through, as negative as that sounds... | |
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| Garry Monk on 14:46 - Jan 9 with 1302 views | C_jack |
| Garry Monk on 14:03 - Jan 9 by FearOfAJackPlanet |
I assume in that last sentence you mean final pieces? As that would tie in with the paragraph above about 'it' being close to complete.
What are these final pieces, in your view? [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 14:04]
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No, I think the final pieces are being put in place at the moment, a top 10 finish in the Premier League will be a fitting end to the work started all those years ago. The likes of Siggy and Ki will deliver that, but will the team be built around them in the coming years? very tough to say.
The likes of Ash, Rangel, and Leon were crucial in developing our identity and style up the pyramid, others contributed of course, but it was those that the foundations were built on.
We can't clone them, 10 years younger, sadly, so the time is coming, rather quickly IMO, where we need to look toward those cornerstones of which the next cycle can be built upon.
Our success was no luck, by any means, Roberto knew (or predicted, rather) that 'tiki-taka' was the next big thing, and as such built us on it , and we flourished accordingly. I don't think we can look at the next 10 years and think that same formula will work, i.e compulsive like possession of the ball. For us to develop as a club, IMO, it is going to need to be changed, in whatever form the modern game will dictate.
Has GM got the ability to not only recognise where the club/game is at, but put those important initial pieces/players in place that are going to see us develop accordingly? That's the burning question for me, it can't be a 'today is ok, tomorrow will be ok' mentality, we'll go backwards, quickly. [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 14:47]
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| Garry Monk on 14:51 - Jan 9 with 1284 views | monmouth |
| Garry Monk on 14:40 - Jan 9 by FearOfAJackPlanet |
The problem with aiming to bring through a new generation of players for a club like ours is that in the end, they'll still go the same way as Wilf et al - straight out the door when a big club comes in. The best we can hope for is to ape Southampton and aim to bring through a constant stream of talent that we can sell for big bucks to keep the club going. It's not a very romantic way to look at things, but as has been shown, the Saints can't hold on to the talent they bring through, why would we be any different?
We're lucky with our recent core, the likes of Ash, Leon, Rangel, Monk himself, in that they rose with us through the leagues and by the time we got to the top league, were so entrenched at the club, and into or approaching their 30s...that they were unlikely to be tempted away or pursued by big teams.
Any new generation we bring up are not going to have that loyalty or connection to us - they'll be off in a shot when a big club comes in (Ben Davies - season ticket holder, off at the first opportunity). I don't think we can rely on a core of players to be brought through to keep the 'Swansea way' flag flying in the way the old guard have done. Wasn't it a similar story in the late 70s early 80s? (core of players rose up the leagues).
I think the future of the club on the playing side in this league is more likely to be a state of constant chaos, ins outs, shop windows for aspiring players than a stable 'new generation' coming through, as negative as that sounds... |
Oh yes, I agree with that. It's the conveyor belt that I think is being explicitly talked about now that I don't remember happening before ('strengthening that young group - ugh - of players"). My memory isn't much mind. | |
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| Garry Monk on 14:57 - Jan 9 with 1274 views | FearOfAJackPlanet |
| Garry Monk on 14:46 - Jan 9 by C_jack |
No, I think the final pieces are being put in place at the moment, a top 10 finish in the Premier League will be a fitting end to the work started all those years ago. The likes of Siggy and Ki will deliver that, but will the team be built around them in the coming years? very tough to say.
The likes of Ash, Rangel, and Leon were crucial in developing our identity and style up the pyramid, others contributed of course, but it was those that the foundations were built on.
We can't clone them, 10 years younger, sadly, so the time is coming, rather quickly IMO, where we need to look toward those cornerstones of which the next cycle can be built upon.
Our success was no luck, by any means, Roberto knew (or predicted, rather) that 'tiki-taka' was the next big thing, and as such built us on it , and we flourished accordingly. I don't think we can look at the next 10 years and think that same formula will work, i.e compulsive like possession of the ball. For us to develop as a club, IMO, it is going to need to be changed, in whatever form the modern game will dictate.
Has GM got the ability to not only recognise where the club/game is at, but put those important initial pieces/players in place that are going to see us develop accordingly? That's the burning question for me, it can't be a 'today is ok, tomorrow will be ok' mentality, we'll go backwards, quickly. [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 14:47]
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I agree with the sentiment, and have often wondered myself what the next sea-change in football will be - and whether we can be ahead of the game - something the board have often talked about; we can't compete financially so we have to do things differently, innovate.
I do believe that cheating/diving is going to be eradicated to a significant degree over the next few years such is the growing backlash (and 5000 cameras at every game highlighting every incident), and I'm pleased that we are at the forefront of that, at least.
As for how we play the game, agree we can't just be complacent and rest on our laurels, the game changes over time. I guess there's an irony in that Monk get's a lot of stick from fans for seemingly doing what you say he should - moving away from old, comfy habits, such as focussing on possession, I even said it myself earlier in this thread. Maybe this is him recognizing that we need to develop, move on? Maybe it's just him being sh*t at tactics and it's not a deliberate tactic, just incompetence!? who knows, time will tell.
Interesting to see where we go though and whether there is a discernable plan to future-proof the 'Swansea Way'. | |
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| Garry Monk on 01:28 - Jan 10 with 1207 views | Starsky |
| Garry Monk on 14:46 - Jan 9 by C_jack |
No, I think the final pieces are being put in place at the moment, a top 10 finish in the Premier League will be a fitting end to the work started all those years ago. The likes of Siggy and Ki will deliver that, but will the team be built around them in the coming years? very tough to say.
The likes of Ash, Rangel, and Leon were crucial in developing our identity and style up the pyramid, others contributed of course, but it was those that the foundations were built on.
We can't clone them, 10 years younger, sadly, so the time is coming, rather quickly IMO, where we need to look toward those cornerstones of which the next cycle can be built upon.
Our success was no luck, by any means, Roberto knew (or predicted, rather) that 'tiki-taka' was the next big thing, and as such built us on it , and we flourished accordingly. I don't think we can look at the next 10 years and think that same formula will work, i.e compulsive like possession of the ball. For us to develop as a club, IMO, it is going to need to be changed, in whatever form the modern game will dictate.
Has GM got the ability to not only recognise where the club/game is at, but put those important initial pieces/players in place that are going to see us develop accordingly? That's the burning question for me, it can't be a 'today is ok, tomorrow will be ok' mentality, we'll go backwards, quickly. [Post edited 9 Jan 2015 14:47]
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Excellent post. Very well thought out. | |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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