| What was the turning point for you? 20:53 - Aug 25 with 5431 views | cadleigh |
For those of us who have concluded that Russell Martin is probably not the Messiah (and I appreciate that not everyone has got there yet), what was the moment at which you decided the Emperor was naked?
For me the turning point was Fulham away last season. Match Day 10, so hardly a snap judgment - nearly a quarter of the way through the season. Silva saw us coming and we were lucky to lose by just two goals. Our wingbacks were hideously out of position the whole game and the worst thing was, everyone could see what was happening. Apart from the manager, apparently.
Afterwards I was slated for criticising Martin. Apparently it was ‘fine margins’. Their first goal was offside, we hit the bar, if either of those had ended differently we could have come away with a point or even three. If, if, if.
In reality they could have carried on scoring all night. We were that bad. |  |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 20:55 - Aug 25 with 4440 views | Dr_Winston |
That we went into this season still trying the same goal kick nonsense.
It's blindingly obvious that it's a total waste of time but we're still doing it. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 21:01 - Aug 25 with 4406 views | lifelong |
| What was the turning point for you? on 20:55 - Aug 25 by Dr_Winston |
That we went into this season still trying the same goal kick nonsense.
It's blindingly obvious that it's a total waste of time but we're still doing it. |
I agree with this, it’s so frustrating to watch. |  | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 21:03 - Aug 25 with 4403 views | Goldminer |
| What was the turning point for you? on 20:55 - Aug 25 by Dr_Winston |
That we went into this season still trying the same goal kick nonsense.
It's blindingly obvious that it's a total waste of time but we're still doing it. |
Can't remember the exact game last season... One of many I suppose but we were losing at home with five minutes to go and the ball went from Crimes to Naughton, back to Crimes ... maybe Downes got a touch but the opposition got all eleven men behind the ball and we lost....anyone recall the exact game or are you like me and they all blend into one? | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 21:10 - Aug 25 with 4390 views | Swans9 |
Don't get it when he says we not far away. I don't rate the owners of the club. We conceded 68 last year and scored 58. Naughton key at the back in the championship titanic incoming. I still be at Stoke away but how we can compete when Boro just signed 2 half million ch and a forward on loan. If Piroe goes at the end of this transfer window we are the new Birmingham scrambling to survive one from the bottom 3 every season. Not much left for the yanks to sell. As spurs say cupboard is empty. | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 21:11 - Aug 25 with 4386 views | Dr_Winston |
I can't blame RM for Grimes.
There seems to be an obsession amongst young managers/coaches for the statistical bullsh*t that has grown around the game in recent years. If you're looking at the stats, Grimes is awesome. He does everything right. If you're looking at the game, not so much.
It's noticeable on Twitter how much the Grimes defenders rely on statistical crap to prove how good he is. How he's completed 87.45% of forward passes with a co-efficient of 3.7 or some other such bollocks. None of them can come up with actual examples of when he's made a difference.
The next manager of SCFC needs a clause in his contract allowing instant dismissal without compensation if he even vaguely references the concept of "xG". [Post edited 25 Aug 2022 21:12]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 21:24 - Aug 25 with 4357 views | Kerouac |
| What was the turning point for you? on 21:10 - Aug 25 by Swans9 |
Don't get it when he says we not far away. I don't rate the owners of the club. We conceded 68 last year and scored 58. Naughton key at the back in the championship titanic incoming. I still be at Stoke away but how we can compete when Boro just signed 2 half million ch and a forward on loan. If Piroe goes at the end of this transfer window we are the new Birmingham scrambling to survive one from the bottom 3 every season. Not much left for the yanks to sell. As spurs say cupboard is empty. |
We've bought a Centre-half for £2m. We just did it earlier in the summer.
MARTIN OUT. NOW. |  |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 21:33 - Aug 25 with 4339 views | pencoedjack |
Blackburn home this season.
Martin asked for 2 transfer windows & a pre season which i could understand, the dross he’s served up this season is awful.
I go to football for a few beers with my mates & to be entertained.
I hate see us sack managers & I am supportive as I can be.
# Martinout |  | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 22:12 - Aug 25 with 4279 views | cadleigh |
| What was the turning point for you? on 21:33 - Aug 25 by pencoedjack |
Blackburn home this season.
Martin asked for 2 transfer windows & a pre season which i could understand, the dross he’s served up this season is awful.
I go to football for a few beers with my mates & to be entertained.
I hate see us sack managers & I am supportive as I can be.
# Martinout |
Huge respect for you and those who kept the faith that long. Those of us who had doubts earlier are now being slated by the die-hards. Reminds me McCarthy’s prosecution of Americans who were guilty of ‘premature Anti-Facism’ for fighting in the Spanish Civil War. | |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 22:46 - Aug 25 with 4236 views | QJumpingJack |
Forest away in May and in particular the second half performance.
It showed how fragile our squad was. | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 23:08 - Aug 25 with 4209 views | PawelAbbott |
Stoke at home. It was about the 3rd game of the season.
They sat back, waited for us to give the ball away, ran past the defence that was out of position and scored.
It was clear then that playing wing backs meant that they got too far forward. Playing the ball in horizontal lines across the back would lead to a missed pass when too far forward.
They were just sitting there, waiting for it.
The tactical change was clear and it was hopelessly inept | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 23:58 - Aug 25 with 4176 views | Thrasher6 |
The bloke looking at his watch in the training video..... |  |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 02:27 - Aug 26 with 4143 views | GVJack |
It's been a sliding scale of confidence but Saturday just gone was the final nail for me.
Ever the optimist I still hope he can prove me wrong but I've gone past the point of (currently) believing he's up to the job. | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 07:19 - Aug 26 with 4070 views | Treforys_Jack |
Probably Christmas/NY. I was looking for signs of progression, some green shoots, but virtually nothing. And the sound of ridiculous goals and chances we conceded by messing around at the back really didn't help. |  | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 07:49 - Aug 26 with 4037 views | cadleigh |
| What was the turning point for you? on 23:08 - Aug 25 by PawelAbbott |
Stoke at home. It was about the 3rd game of the season.
They sat back, waited for us to give the ball away, ran past the defence that was out of position and scored.
It was clear then that playing wing backs meant that they got too far forward. Playing the ball in horizontal lines across the back would lead to a missed pass when too far forward.
They were just sitting there, waiting for it.
The tactical change was clear and it was hopelessly inept |
I'd forgotten that game. In retrospect, all the warning signs were there. Reading back over comments I made at the time, I was too easily persuaded that it was a one-off by the chorus of people arguing that he had no pre-season, it would all be better once he'd had a chance to bring his own players in, the revolution would take time and there'd be bumps along the way etc. | |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 09:25 - Aug 26 with 3973 views | onehunglow |
Preston away last season
Dumping Piroe and starting Cullen in midfield.
Apart from that,Forest last season as it was clear nothing learned.
Winston's point about the goalkeeper tippy tappy crap is bang on. | |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 11:27 - Aug 26 with 3936 views | sw02sea |
Every time I hear him speak! | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 11:53 - Aug 26 with 3919 views | Badlands |
Rotherham.
The team was lass prepared than ever.
Sorinola and Wood looked way out of their depth and Paterson appeared to content to cruise, as he had after his pram/toy episode in January.
Confirmed
Oxford when Martin's experimental formation worked until he reverted to his preferred formation but with untried and out of position players.
As I have said for a long time he knows what he wants he just isn’t capable of achieving it. |  |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 12:28 - Aug 26 with 3894 views | PawelAbbott |
| What was the turning point for you? on 07:49 - Aug 26 by cadleigh |
I'd forgotten that game. In retrospect, all the warning signs were there. Reading back over comments I made at the time, I was too easily persuaded that it was a one-off by the chorus of people arguing that he had no pre-season, it would all be better once he'd had a chance to bring his own players in, the revolution would take time and there'd be bumps along the way etc. |
The issues were clear.
He had taken a team that had finished as runners up in the play offs and there we were making stupid mistakes to give goals away. Yes, we had lost Guehi, Ayew etc but it wasn't the personnel that were the problem. It was the way the team was set up. The tactic was to bring the ball slowly to the centre, move wing backs forward of the ball, then pass it across a now exposed back 3.
Once the ball is lost its a foot race between unmarked wingers and retreating centre backs.
The ball is then moved from the wing to the centre for on rushing forwards.
It still hasn't changed. | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 12:49 - Aug 26 with 3876 views | onehunglow |
| What was the turning point for you? on 12:28 - Aug 26 by PawelAbbott |
The issues were clear.
He had taken a team that had finished as runners up in the play offs and there we were making stupid mistakes to give goals away. Yes, we had lost Guehi, Ayew etc but it wasn't the personnel that were the problem. It was the way the team was set up. The tactic was to bring the ball slowly to the centre, move wing backs forward of the ball, then pass it across a now exposed back 3.
Once the ball is lost its a foot race between unmarked wingers and retreating centre backs.
The ball is then moved from the wing to the centre for on rushing forwards.
It still hasn't changed. |
Pawel
Would you agree with me the lowering of fans expectation has been both dramatic and sinister. | |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 12:57 - Aug 26 with 3874 views | PawelAbbott |
| What was the turning point for you? on 12:49 - Aug 26 by onehunglow |
Pawel
Would you agree with me the lowering of fans expectation has been both dramatic and sinister. |
Yes. I understand that people want to give the guy a chance. Axing him after 5 games was obviously never going to happen.
But, the reason for removing the very successful Cooper was to improve style. That hasn't happened though.
We have gone from a very pragmatic but difficult to beat side.
To a mono paced, lethargic side that is easy to beat.
We are hearing this is because of a lack of investment, having the wrong players etc.
We were on the verge of promotion, now the aim is to do better than 15th and people accept that.
If we had just been promoted from League 1, then fine.
But, the previous manager got us to 4th and 6th on less expenditure. Why do we now all roll over and accept 14th as a good season? | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 13:07 - Aug 26 with 3864 views | PawelAbbott |
| What was the turning point for you? on 12:57 - Aug 26 by PawelAbbott |
Yes. I understand that people want to give the guy a chance. Axing him after 5 games was obviously never going to happen.
But, the reason for removing the very successful Cooper was to improve style. That hasn't happened though.
We have gone from a very pragmatic but difficult to beat side.
To a mono paced, lethargic side that is easy to beat.
We are hearing this is because of a lack of investment, having the wrong players etc.
We were on the verge of promotion, now the aim is to do better than 15th and people accept that.
If we had just been promoted from League 1, then fine.
But, the previous manager got us to 4th and 6th on less expenditure. Why do we now all roll over and accept 14th as a good season? |
Under Cooper we brought in some very good loan players. A number of those players have gone on to acquire huge valuations after spending time with us.
Last season we loaned in several players who were barely used and gained little benefit. Clubs are now seemingly less inclined to loan us their bigger talents.
I don't think we realise yet how damaging that will be on our ability to compete at the top of this division.
We can't buy Guehi, Woodman, Gallagher etc. To get players of that level we need to be seen as a team that gives those players real opportunities.
Without that we will struggle. Most promoted sides either have a lot of money or use the loan market to bring in top young talent.
This year we have brought in Sorinola | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 13:08 - Aug 26 with 3859 views | onehunglow |
| What was the turning point for you? on 12:57 - Aug 26 by PawelAbbott |
Yes. I understand that people want to give the guy a chance. Axing him after 5 games was obviously never going to happen.
But, the reason for removing the very successful Cooper was to improve style. That hasn't happened though.
We have gone from a very pragmatic but difficult to beat side.
To a mono paced, lethargic side that is easy to beat.
We are hearing this is because of a lack of investment, having the wrong players etc.
We were on the verge of promotion, now the aim is to do better than 15th and people accept that.
If we had just been promoted from League 1, then fine.
But, the previous manager got us to 4th and 6th on less expenditure. Why do we now all roll over and accept 14th as a good season? |
Mono was never good even in the days when we had a choice of Mono (for the poor) and Stereo (the not poor ) | |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 13:48 - Aug 26 with 3844 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
The playing out from the back is a distraction. I am not a statistians but Fisher has not given away to many goals doing this. It is by definition hair raising for fans but Benda gave away the Oxford tie buy trying to hoof it.
The issue is weakness on being hit on the break, set piece issues and the failure to get blocks in . Robert and Bidwell were strong and brave and have been replace by weak and dosy replacements.
Sorinola was not what the doctor ordered. This was a self indulgent signing by Martin who who should have moulded Garrick in ot a wing back roles. Bigger stronger faster better in the air and more committed than Srinola. |  |
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| What was the turning point for you? on 13:52 - Aug 26 with 3843 views | PawelAbbott |
| What was the turning point for you? on 13:48 - Aug 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The playing out from the back is a distraction. I am not a statistians but Fisher has not given away to many goals doing this. It is by definition hair raising for fans but Benda gave away the Oxford tie buy trying to hoof it.
The issue is weakness on being hit on the break, set piece issues and the failure to get blocks in . Robert and Bidwell were strong and brave and have been replace by weak and dosy replacements.
Sorinola was not what the doctor ordered. This was a self indulgent signing by Martin who who should have moulded Garrick in ot a wing back roles. Bigger stronger faster better in the air and more committed than Srinola. |
I agree with that apart from the Oxford goal.
The right back tried to pass it around with few options. His loose ball to Benda left him little option. He didn't have to boot it at the forward, but it was a bit of a hospital ball.
Humping it down the line would have solved the whole situation | | | |
| What was the turning point for you? on 14:30 - Aug 26 with 3821 views | onehunglow |
| What was the turning point for you? on 13:48 - Aug 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The playing out from the back is a distraction. I am not a statistians but Fisher has not given away to many goals doing this. It is by definition hair raising for fans but Benda gave away the Oxford tie buy trying to hoof it.
The issue is weakness on being hit on the break, set piece issues and the failure to get blocks in . Robert and Bidwell were strong and brave and have been replace by weak and dosy replacements.
Sorinola was not what the doctor ordered. This was a self indulgent signing by Martin who who should have moulded Garrick in ot a wing back roles. Bigger stronger faster better in the air and more committed than Srinola. |
An incoming manager would get rid of Sorinola instantly and possibly,if possible,bring back our loans who have not been given a chance at all. I would suggest Benda would replace Fisher and Bennett come in for Wood and we get to play the basics .
Grimes would hand over the captaincy to Joe and be benched and Paterson sold or loaned out or simply given the martin treatment -ignore.
We can easily get out of this mess | |
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