| Cardiff relegation 22/23 18:15 - Apr 15 with 3696 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Is this a distinct possibility?
They are horrendous.
No money, heap of players out of contract, court cases worth millions hanging over their heads, loan players due to go back, no doubt an even emptier echoing stadium next season and a manager that doesn’t seem to inspire anyone.
They are a bit cockroach like so not sure it will come to fruition, but they seem primed to be the best free fall club.
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 18:29 - Apr 15 with 2626 views | Chief |
Yes I think it could be. They tried the youngsters this year but despite some promise from some, it was a last week of the transfer splurge on 5 loan players that has turned their form around. Morrison doesn't seem convinced by their brightest youngsters Davies and Colwill, publically slating them, dropping them and subbing them lots. Big pressure on their shoulders next to perform consistently. |  |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 19:33 - Apr 15 with 2557 views | dantheswansman |
No! apparently they are getting Gareth Bale according to them lol personally i would rather retire than degrade myself that low |  | | |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 19:34 - Apr 15 with 2557 views | bennytheblue |
Eh? We get promoted every year that ends in 3 dont u know? Also, since Morison took over I believe we’d be in the playoffs…..still, rather be sustainable our wage bill will be it’s lowest for over a decade with lots of youth coming through. Dream on Roathie |  | | |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 20:40 - Apr 15 with 2477 views | ItchySphincter |
Fingers and toes crossed. |  |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 21:30 - Apr 15 with 2433 views | LittleEnglandJack |
Yes, they're in serious trouble, probably alongside their 'real rivals' Brizzle City.
They are absolutely dire and only being held afloat by loan signings at the minute. When they're gone they're in big trouble unless they recruit shrewdly.
Frankly I consider it a stain on our season that they are anywhere near us in the table. They really are that bad. |  | | |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 23:29 - Apr 15 with 2335 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 19:34 - Apr 15 by bennytheblue |
Eh? We get promoted every year that ends in 3 dont u know? Also, since Morison took over I believe we’d be in the playoffs…..still, rather be sustainable our wage bill will be it’s lowest for over a decade with lots of youth coming through. Dream on Roathie |
“ Also, since Morison took over I believe we’d be in the playoffs.”
Why would you believe that? It’s not even close to being true.
1.41 points he averages since taking over.
1.41 x 41 = 57 points.
Which would nudge you very neatly behind us in 15th had he have taken over at the start.
Close though  | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 23:41 - Apr 15 with 2322 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
They should have enough to keep their noses above water. Their scouting seems improved and Colwill and Davies are talents. Barnsley and Peterborough re yo yo ing up and down. Sunderland are obviously a different kettle of fish even with sensible spending if the get up.
Having a big batch of players out of contract is not necessarily a bad thing. They are on a good wedge. It will be a buyers market in the summer for any team willing to play decent wages like the out of contract guys were getting. |  |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 23:58 - Apr 15 with 2314 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 23:41 - Apr 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
They should have enough to keep their noses above water. Their scouting seems improved and Colwill and Davies are talents. Barnsley and Peterborough re yo yo ing up and down. Sunderland are obviously a different kettle of fish even with sensible spending if the get up.
Having a big batch of players out of contract is not necessarily a bad thing. They are on a good wedge. It will be a buyers market in the summer for any team willing to play decent wages like the out of contract guys were getting. |
When they lose the Sala case, anything not nailed down will be sold off.
Their chairman said it could cripple the club.
He forgot he lied weeks before and said the money has been put aside for it. Oops. Already talking about a payment plan should they lose… which of course won’t take into consideration legal fees, both theirs and Nantes’ who have 13 lawyers on the case or something close to that, it would be in the millions - plus interest and damages.
Nantes can claim that not being paid £15m for their star striker detrimentally affected their prosperity. Which is hard to argue with really.
So I expect Colwill may be auctioned off in a cut price deal to help service it. May cover the first instalment and keep the wolf from the door for 6 months. | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 00:25 - Apr 16 with 2300 views | Chief |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 23:58 - Apr 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
When they lose the Sala case, anything not nailed down will be sold off.
Their chairman said it could cripple the club.
He forgot he lied weeks before and said the money has been put aside for it. Oops. Already talking about a payment plan should they lose… which of course won’t take into consideration legal fees, both theirs and Nantes’ who have 13 lawyers on the case or something close to that, it would be in the millions - plus interest and damages.
Nantes can claim that not being paid £15m for their star striker detrimentally affected their prosperity. Which is hard to argue with really.
So I expect Colwill may be auctioned off in a cut price deal to help service it. May cover the first instalment and keep the wolf from the door for 6 months. |
It's puzzling what is taking so long with the Sala case. I think the hearing was in the first week of March. It's gone on too long. It's ridiculous that Cardiff were because of the length of time it took to hear the case had opportunities to make it back to the premier league after they refused to pay. UEFA found them to have defaulted, they should have been given a transfer ban until either they pay or the appeal is heard. | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 09:31 - Apr 16 with 2176 views | bennytheblue |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 23:29 - Apr 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
“ Also, since Morison took over I believe we’d be in the playoffs.”
Why would you believe that? It’s not even close to being true.
1.41 points he averages since taking over.
1.41 x 41 = 57 points.
Which would nudge you very neatly behind us in 15th had he have taken over at the start.
Close though |
I know I just wanted you to waste your precious time doing research on us, like I knew you would from your past shananigans. You have no life so you have plenty of time. If SM had started with the right team we would have won yesterday too….he changed it at half time but it was too late. | | | |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 09:34 - Apr 16 with 2167 views | bennytheblue |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 23:41 - Apr 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
They should have enough to keep their noses above water. Their scouting seems improved and Colwill and Davies are talents. Barnsley and Peterborough re yo yo ing up and down. Sunderland are obviously a different kettle of fish even with sensible spending if the get up.
Having a big batch of players out of contract is not necessarily a bad thing. They are on a good wedge. It will be a buyers market in the summer for any team willing to play decent wages like the out of contract guys were getting. |
Yes the clear out of the bacunas and packs of the world is very much appreciated. Smithies was still on his premier league wages too. When malky took us over we had 10 players left. I’ve faith in SM to use the loan market well too like he’s just done. Hearing Doyle and Dramaeh are both going to be here next season which is a great start. I think we will finish above you lot | | | |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 09:39 - Apr 16 with 2156 views | Whiterockin |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 09:34 - Apr 16 by bennytheblue |
Yes the clear out of the bacunas and packs of the world is very much appreciated. Smithies was still on his premier league wages too. When malky took us over we had 10 players left. I’ve faith in SM to use the loan market well too like he’s just done. Hearing Doyle and Dramaeh are both going to be here next season which is a great start. I think we will finish above you lot |
I think we will finish above you lot
So you will be going up as well then.  |  | | |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 09:44 - Apr 16 with 2147 views | bennytheblue |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 09:39 - Apr 16 by Whiterockin |
I think we will finish above you lot
So you will be going up as well then. |
Well we went up in 83, 93, 03, 13….2023?
I know….it’s just a bit of fun and games to add some interest. | | | |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 09:48 - Apr 16 with 2139 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 09:31 - Apr 16 by bennytheblue |
I know I just wanted you to waste your precious time doing research on us, like I knew you would from your past shananigans. You have no life so you have plenty of time. If SM had started with the right team we would have won yesterday too….he changed it at half time but it was too late. |
Took about 40 seconds.
Come on now Benny, you have to get up earlier in the morning to get one by me. Strange you would think that though, not like you have been any good.
Regardless of website I post on, I’m still spot on you see. No escape  | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:39 - Apr 16 with 2072 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
Do not be surprised if there is a compromise outcome. It is obviously quite a complicated matter involving multiple interested parties, insurance issues, criminality and the odd football way of doing things.
From what i can see Cardiff city did nothing wrong and this may lead to a sympathetic leaning by the assessment board. In these matter when there is a deeply unfortunate event people tend to look for the least harmful solutions.
I am surprised the carbon monoxide issue is not a bigger factor. The condition of the aircraft caused the deaths not the pilot could be one line of argument. The aircraft was insured taking into account its age and condition. [Post edited 16 Apr 2022 11:41]
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:43 - Apr 16 with 2046 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:39 - Apr 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Do not be surprised if there is a compromise outcome. It is obviously quite a complicated matter involving multiple interested parties, insurance issues, criminality and the odd football way of doing things.
From what i can see Cardiff city did nothing wrong and this may lead to a sympathetic leaning by the assessment board. In these matter when there is a deeply unfortunate event people tend to look for the least harmful solutions.
I am surprised the carbon monoxide issue is not a bigger factor. The condition of the aircraft caused the deaths not the pilot could be one line of argument. The aircraft was insured taking into account its age and condition. [Post edited 16 Apr 2022 11:41]
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Did nothing wrong?
Apart from not paying you mean? | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:47 - Apr 16 with 2042 views | bennytheblue |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:39 - Apr 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Do not be surprised if there is a compromise outcome. It is obviously quite a complicated matter involving multiple interested parties, insurance issues, criminality and the odd football way of doing things.
From what i can see Cardiff city did nothing wrong and this may lead to a sympathetic leaning by the assessment board. In these matter when there is a deeply unfortunate event people tend to look for the least harmful solutions.
I am surprised the carbon monoxide issue is not a bigger factor. The condition of the aircraft caused the deaths not the pilot could be one line of argument. The aircraft was insured taking into account its age and condition. [Post edited 16 Apr 2022 11:41]
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If your clubs lawyers tell you to hang on, you do. No club would have done any different. Any that think they would are deluded | | | |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:49 - Apr 16 with 2039 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:47 - Apr 16 by bennytheblue |
If your clubs lawyers tell you to hang on, you do. No club would have done any different. Any that think they would are deluded |
Where did you hear that from?
Tan sent the case to lawyers and asked them if they could find anything, they said his case is weak but there may be something if we have long enough.
They have had years and not come forward with a single sensible argument not to pay. It’s simply a delaying tactic. | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:55 - Apr 16 with 2030 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:39 - Apr 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Do not be surprised if there is a compromise outcome. It is obviously quite a complicated matter involving multiple interested parties, insurance issues, criminality and the odd football way of doing things.
From what i can see Cardiff city did nothing wrong and this may lead to a sympathetic leaning by the assessment board. In these matter when there is a deeply unfortunate event people tend to look for the least harmful solutions.
I am surprised the carbon monoxide issue is not a bigger factor. The condition of the aircraft caused the deaths not the pilot could be one line of argument. The aircraft was insured taking into account its age and condition. [Post edited 16 Apr 2022 11:41]
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“The condition of the aircraft caused the deaths not the pilot could be one line of argument. The aircraft was insured taking into account its age and condition.”
An argument against who?
If I employed you to be my CEO, and negotiated a compensation package with your employer to poach you - signed the deal and got it done. You left your place of work and said your goodbyes.
Then I offered you a flight which you turned down as it was inconvenient to your plans, then arranged your travel yourself and you crashed on the way.
What grounds would I have for not honouring the deal with your company? | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 14:19 - Apr 16 with 1965 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 11:55 - Apr 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
“The condition of the aircraft caused the deaths not the pilot could be one line of argument. The aircraft was insured taking into account its age and condition.”
An argument against who?
If I employed you to be my CEO, and negotiated a compensation package with your employer to poach you - signed the deal and got it done. You left your place of work and said your goodbyes.
Then I offered you a flight which you turned down as it was inconvenient to your plans, then arranged your travel yourself and you crashed on the way.
What grounds would I have for not honouring the deal with your company? |
Sorry I do not understand your line of thinking. An argument can be considered a line of thought and does not have to be 'against' anyone.
I am a believer that insurance works in protecting people who have not done anything wrong from unexpected events. In all accidents something must have gone wrong.
Cardiff s city did nothing wrong. The agent working for Nantes (not registered to operate)
arranged a flight with a firm that cut corners using an unqualified pilot in an airplane that did not appear airworthy. The unregulated agent was working for the interests of Nantes
The player was insured, the agent was insured, the aeroplane was insured the aviation firm was insured. EU aviation laws etc It is very complex. The insurers are up to to their neck in this and as understand the way of the world all parties must accept some "blame" in an event of worldwide publicity.
In my assessment Cardiff city would declare they did nothing wrong and it would be a travesty if justice if they had to pay the full bill when every one else carries some blame including the insurers. I do not see a £15m bill landing on Mr Tan's plush carpet.
I see a compromise of some sort with Cardiff city sharing some of the costs of this very sad event. | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 14:27 - Apr 16 with 1961 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 14:19 - Apr 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Sorry I do not understand your line of thinking. An argument can be considered a line of thought and does not have to be 'against' anyone.
I am a believer that insurance works in protecting people who have not done anything wrong from unexpected events. In all accidents something must have gone wrong.
Cardiff s city did nothing wrong. The agent working for Nantes (not registered to operate)
arranged a flight with a firm that cut corners using an unqualified pilot in an airplane that did not appear airworthy. The unregulated agent was working for the interests of Nantes
The player was insured, the agent was insured, the aeroplane was insured the aviation firm was insured. EU aviation laws etc It is very complex. The insurers are up to to their neck in this and as understand the way of the world all parties must accept some "blame" in an event of worldwide publicity.
In my assessment Cardiff city would declare they did nothing wrong and it would be a travesty if justice if they had to pay the full bill when every one else carries some blame including the insurers. I do not see a £15m bill landing on Mr Tan's plush carpet.
I see a compromise of some sort with Cardiff city sharing some of the costs of this very sad event. |
Well this is litigation, what has that line of thought got to do with anything? Unless your line of thought implicates the other party then it’s useless in this case.
The agent was not working for Nantes. The agent was an intermediaries between Cardiff and Nantes and they were employed on a contract basis, they were not employees of the club. They were assigned to complete a task, which they did. Once the deal was done their ties with Nantes ended.
“Doing nothing wrong” is not an argument as to why they shouldn’t pay what they owe Nantes. We did nothing wrong when Besian Idrizaj died, had we owed instalments we would still be liable for them.
There is absolutely no need to Nantes to compromise anything. They sold their best player for £15m and Cardiff have refused to pay for him as he was involved in personally arranged fatal accident days after declaring him their player.
If you were a player and I called you a taxi and it turned out the driver was drunk, didn’t have a licence and crashed en route. That’s not my fault, that’s the fault of the taxi company. Making a call to a company to arrange transport is not a crime nor does it make you liable.
What they can do is sue the person to blame for the accident, but I doubt the plane company has that kind of money, so would be futile. But that has nothing to do with Nantes.
He was not working in the interests of Nantes, they had already sold him. He could refuse to play and run away to Morocco for all they care. He returned to France on a personal trip to say goodbye to his friend after the deal was complete, his transport back from that trip was none of their concern - nor should it be. [Post edited 16 Apr 2022 14:57]
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 15:22 - Apr 16 with 1918 views | Chief |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 14:19 - Apr 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Sorry I do not understand your line of thinking. An argument can be considered a line of thought and does not have to be 'against' anyone.
I am a believer that insurance works in protecting people who have not done anything wrong from unexpected events. In all accidents something must have gone wrong.
Cardiff s city did nothing wrong. The agent working for Nantes (not registered to operate)
arranged a flight with a firm that cut corners using an unqualified pilot in an airplane that did not appear airworthy. The unregulated agent was working for the interests of Nantes
The player was insured, the agent was insured, the aeroplane was insured the aviation firm was insured. EU aviation laws etc It is very complex. The insurers are up to to their neck in this and as understand the way of the world all parties must accept some "blame" in an event of worldwide publicity.
In my assessment Cardiff city would declare they did nothing wrong and it would be a travesty if justice if they had to pay the full bill when every one else carries some blame including the insurers. I do not see a £15m bill landing on Mr Tan's plush carpet.
I see a compromise of some sort with Cardiff city sharing some of the costs of this very sad event. |
It's pretty obvious and I believe the club had alluded to it themselves that they did not have relevant insurance and as a result haven't claimed on the policy which is why this whole case exists and why the Sala family have been in limbo.
Cardiff did nothing wrong in relation to events specifically surrounding his death, but that does not absolve them from paying a fee for a player and UEFA were right to rule that they should pay. They've appealed to CAS against that decision, but they shouldn't take into account anything to do with the plane or agent or Nantes, simply whether the player had actually signed for Cardiffs by the time of his death (which is what Cardiff have disputed thus far).
Following that however, should Cardiff not get the decision they want, they could potentially commence a claim in a non sporting court surrounding the pilot / Nantes involvement in booking the dodgy pilot and plane, although that's more something his family should take on. The only thing that is being argued at this stage is whether he was legally a Cardiff player at the time of his death. | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 15:31 - Apr 16 with 1914 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 14:27 - Apr 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
Well this is litigation, what has that line of thought got to do with anything? Unless your line of thought implicates the other party then it’s useless in this case.
The agent was not working for Nantes. The agent was an intermediaries between Cardiff and Nantes and they were employed on a contract basis, they were not employees of the club. They were assigned to complete a task, which they did. Once the deal was done their ties with Nantes ended.
“Doing nothing wrong” is not an argument as to why they shouldn’t pay what they owe Nantes. We did nothing wrong when Besian Idrizaj died, had we owed instalments we would still be liable for them.
There is absolutely no need to Nantes to compromise anything. They sold their best player for £15m and Cardiff have refused to pay for him as he was involved in personally arranged fatal accident days after declaring him their player.
If you were a player and I called you a taxi and it turned out the driver was drunk, didn’t have a licence and crashed en route. That’s not my fault, that’s the fault of the taxi company. Making a call to a company to arrange transport is not a crime nor does it make you liable.
What they can do is sue the person to blame for the accident, but I doubt the plane company has that kind of money, so would be futile. But that has nothing to do with Nantes.
He was not working in the interests of Nantes, they had already sold him. He could refuse to play and run away to Morocco for all they care. He returned to France on a personal trip to say goodbye to his friend after the deal was complete, his transport back from that trip was none of their concern - nor should it be. [Post edited 16 Apr 2022 14:57]
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The agent was employed by Nantes to sell their player to Cardiff. He was clearly not they employee that is obvious. The termination criteria of the arrangement has to be determined.
Cardiff can clearly ask for payment terms to be delayed until all the evidence is collected and and insurance settlement agreed so as not to lead to unemployment at the club where they have done little wrong. Its arbitration left to professionals. Cardiff have been compromised by criminality and negligence of others in a poorly regulated business.
I expect a compromise. The legal process is still proceeding. | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 15:31 - Apr 16 with 1914 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 15:22 - Apr 16 by Chief |
It's pretty obvious and I believe the club had alluded to it themselves that they did not have relevant insurance and as a result haven't claimed on the policy which is why this whole case exists and why the Sala family have been in limbo.
Cardiff did nothing wrong in relation to events specifically surrounding his death, but that does not absolve them from paying a fee for a player and UEFA were right to rule that they should pay. They've appealed to CAS against that decision, but they shouldn't take into account anything to do with the plane or agent or Nantes, simply whether the player had actually signed for Cardiffs by the time of his death (which is what Cardiff have disputed thus far).
Following that however, should Cardiff not get the decision they want, they could potentially commence a claim in a non sporting court surrounding the pilot / Nantes involvement in booking the dodgy pilot and plane, although that's more something his family should take on. The only thing that is being argued at this stage is whether he was legally a Cardiff player at the time of his death. |
Correct. It’s not even a difficult case.
If Cardiff had insured him there is no way they would be kicking up this fuss. Plus of course you don’t insure other clubs players, so if they insured him then they owned him by default.
He left Nantes, cleared his locker and signed with another club. From that moment nobody is working in Nantes interests, what happens after that is not of their concern. He’s been sold.
Cardiff had the option to look after their asset by arranging a suitable flight for him. They declined and offered him a budget airline hours away from where he was, so he refused and arranged transport himself.
As you say, Cardiff have a real case against the plane company (although think they are dissolved with very little assets based out of Norfolk - plane registered in the States) and they may also have a case against David Henderson, the original pilot who was found guilty for reckless endangerment.
But none of that impacts what they owe Nantes and of course neither party would be able to service such a court case so it would be futile.
They owe the lot + interest + court fees + possible damages. | |
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| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 15:43 - Apr 16 with 1902 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Cardiff relegation 22/23 on 15:31 - Apr 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The agent was employed by Nantes to sell their player to Cardiff. He was clearly not they employee that is obvious. The termination criteria of the arrangement has to be determined.
Cardiff can clearly ask for payment terms to be delayed until all the evidence is collected and and insurance settlement agreed so as not to lead to unemployment at the club where they have done little wrong. Its arbitration left to professionals. Cardiff have been compromised by criminality and negligence of others in a poorly regulated business.
I expect a compromise. The legal process is still proceeding. |
What?
If an agent is employed to complete a project, and they complete the project (which they did), then they are no longer employed. If the deal was already completed then they are no longer working in their interests.
Plus it is not illegal to arrange a flight with a company. My company often lays on Ubers for free, if one of them crashed it’s not their fault.
Again, “doing nothing wrong” doesn’t come into it. Not sure why you seem to be going down that route.
Did we do anything wrong when Besian passed away? Would you suggest we withhold instalments if we had owed them? Of course not. | |
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