| Where do the trust go from here ? 14:44 - Feb 16 with 5178 views | KeithHaynes |
Are they of any future use ?
Or should they continue ? |  |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 22:02 - Feb 16 with 1389 views | guthrieintherain |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 22:00 - Feb 16 by BillyChong |
Yes the club making a statement was odd yesterday. The £500k is apparently coming from the sellouts. |
Yes very odd I smell a rat. |  |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 22:06 - Feb 16 with 1373 views | max936 |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 22:02 - Feb 16 by guthrieintherain |
Yes very odd I smell a rat. |
There's more than one to choose from. |  |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 10:36 - Feb 17 with 1212 views | onehunglow |
We have had a myriad of feckless owners,some corrupt so the Trust was formed to protect us from such people.
Now it seems the Trust is just a duplicitious.
I read we are bottom of the league when relying on rich ownership or billionaire/sugar daddys. Id give several pints of blood for one right now. Not all are rotten.
Our sustainability is a sham . We could be sustainable in the National League or LOW where we didnt have to play the filthy English and talk their language .Not many would be happy with that.
We are so desperate to be sold but to whom is what will determine the future.
The question is ,why are/were we so unattractive a buy. | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 10:49 - Feb 17 with 1209 views | Boundy |
Once the trust has been broken ,which it has then either remove the present Board or start afresh with no defined links to the Club but with watching brief | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 11:30 - Feb 17 with 1181 views | Wingstandwood |
The Trust can still serve a purpose for being a voice for disabled supporters and disabled supporters facilities etc! I can see its voice being heard on that, in all fairness! Backed up by laws also.... Would have no problem with a disabled supporter being paid for that role.
Charity fundraising also because (seen on this messageboard) the club has some really charitable supporters, doer's and givers.
Maybe more of a disabled supporter-support and charity fundraising organisation. A bit like a Regimental association e.g. Parachute Regiment Association and Royal Welsh etc. Meet on Walters Road anymore?
But involvement with day to day football/business side of things? No chance, gets ignored, more than enough evidence of that!
And because of that I see absolutely no point in it being involved with the business/football side of things and thus no need for a member to be in the directors box on a regular basis. |  |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 11:35 - Feb 17 with 1162 views | Whiterockin |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 11:30 - Feb 17 by Wingstandwood |
The Trust can still serve a purpose for being a voice for disabled supporters and disabled supporters facilities etc! I can see its voice being heard on that, in all fairness! Backed up by laws also.... Would have no problem with a disabled supporter being paid for that role.
Charity fundraising also because (seen on this messageboard) the club has some really charitable supporters, doer's and givers.
Maybe more of a disabled supporter-support and charity fundraising organisation. A bit like a Regimental association e.g. Parachute Regiment Association and Royal Welsh etc. Meet on Walters Road anymore?
But involvement with day to day football/business side of things? No chance, gets ignored, more than enough evidence of that!
And because of that I see absolutely no point in it being involved with the business/football side of things and thus no need for a member to be in the directors box on a regular basis. |
Good points put very well. |  | | |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 13:02 - Feb 17 with 1090 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
The Trust habitually do the wrong thing and the wrong time. TWTATWT. It appears to be in their make up.
The Trust made a horrible mistake in 2015 -2016 by not being up for sale. Expected valuation of their shares was £21m. They should have been up for sale and thanking Huw Jenkins for his excellent work in delivering that valuation. 10,000%. Outstanding. The Trust slagged off the great man instead. TWTATWT. Absolutely pathetic. (small town politics)
So what has changed? The club is in the Championship and now is the time to buy not sell. Trust member on here do exactly the wrong things. (wrap it up they say. Of course they do TWTATWT).
Sadly the Trust wanted protection because they are weaklings. 5% has been taken out of circulation. TWTATWT
The Trust in this warm glow of agreement should put the £500k into the Convertible loan note along with another £500k from their accounts for total £1m. It should have been agreed in the talks. This would be for the full allowed period. No deal like this it seems TWTATWT.
This deal would have been wanted by the Trust if they had any concept of protecting their cash against inflation. (currently 5.5%). They would have understood this simply by connecting to the "boring" threads of myself and The Chief (we should all support him in this difficult time) .
The Trust might lose 200 members £1000. Being in the CLN for £1m would see an annual income of £50,000.
The old Trust chairman asked what protection did the Trust have from a contrived low valuation of club shares in the CLN (say valuing the club at £10m) . I am not a business expert but being a good friendly terms is one way and another is actually being involved. The Trust chose conflict. TWTATWT.
The Trust now has to hope the club gets to the PL again. There are two men in the club who have done it. Winter and Jenkins / Morgan.
If the Trust get back to the PL they now have a tag on. WIth the 5% out of circulation and a 16% holding diluted to 10% they would still be valued at £20m the same as 2016 based on Biurnleys valuation. So why give up.?
Do not give up - take professional independent business advice instead producing a thorough option report explaining investment options. [Post edited 17 Feb 2022 13:08]
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 13:22 - Feb 17 with 1073 views | Chief |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 13:02 - Feb 17 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The Trust habitually do the wrong thing and the wrong time. TWTATWT. It appears to be in their make up.
The Trust made a horrible mistake in 2015 -2016 by not being up for sale. Expected valuation of their shares was £21m. They should have been up for sale and thanking Huw Jenkins for his excellent work in delivering that valuation. 10,000%. Outstanding. The Trust slagged off the great man instead. TWTATWT. Absolutely pathetic. (small town politics)
So what has changed? The club is in the Championship and now is the time to buy not sell. Trust member on here do exactly the wrong things. (wrap it up they say. Of course they do TWTATWT).
Sadly the Trust wanted protection because they are weaklings. 5% has been taken out of circulation. TWTATWT
The Trust in this warm glow of agreement should put the £500k into the Convertible loan note along with another £500k from their accounts for total £1m. It should have been agreed in the talks. This would be for the full allowed period. No deal like this it seems TWTATWT.
This deal would have been wanted by the Trust if they had any concept of protecting their cash against inflation. (currently 5.5%). They would have understood this simply by connecting to the "boring" threads of myself and The Chief (we should all support him in this difficult time) .
The Trust might lose 200 members £1000. Being in the CLN for £1m would see an annual income of £50,000.
The old Trust chairman asked what protection did the Trust have from a contrived low valuation of club shares in the CLN (say valuing the club at £10m) . I am not a business expert but being a good friendly terms is one way and another is actually being involved. The Trust chose conflict. TWTATWT.
The Trust now has to hope the club gets to the PL again. There are two men in the club who have done it. Winter and Jenkins / Morgan.
If the Trust get back to the PL they now have a tag on. WIth the 5% out of circulation and a 16% holding diluted to 10% they would still be valued at £20m the same as 2016 based on Biurnleys valuation. So why give up.?
Do not give up - take professional independent business advice instead producing a thorough option report explaining investment options. [Post edited 17 Feb 2022 13:08]
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- well the club itself wasn't outwardly up for sale either, so that's moot. The trust were open to selling, they even met Noell and Moores. And Informed these Americans that they would consider selling at the first opportunity too. Means nothing if the Americans don't want to buy which evidently, patently didn't want to.
- Jenkins and rest are the reason for this whole mess now. The criticisms were fully vindicated.
- no one wanted to buy the trust's shares and it's pretty obvious no one wanted to buy their shares. Strange comment.
- what fans trust wouldn't want protection? To pursue that shows strength. 5% is pretty pointless though.
- it wouldn't be in Silverstein's interest for the trust to join the CLN which is probably why they weren't asked to be involved and are having the particulars withheld.
- this has no relevance to inflation. This 500k barely covers what's been spent preparing for the case. They have the same restricted options for investment as previously.
- CLN has been discussed. The Americans with the casting vote wouldn't want them in or to weigh in at conversion - if they did less percent for JS.
- I thought this was business? The trust sucking up to the Americans isn't going to make them alter their CLN plans at the terns agreed (which the trust asked to informed of).
- the trust should have hoped we'd get back to the prem all along.
- give up because we're way off the prem, we won't be worth what Burnley were worth and the trust may not want to sell who the Americans may want to sell to. Let's face it, the two parties have differing levels of moral obligation. And if course the Americans have been complicit in the breaking of agreements previously.
- Theyve taken professional legal advice for years but decided to ignore it. |  |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 14:24 - Feb 17 with 1034 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 13:22 - Feb 17 by Chief |
- well the club itself wasn't outwardly up for sale either, so that's moot. The trust were open to selling, they even met Noell and Moores. And Informed these Americans that they would consider selling at the first opportunity too. Means nothing if the Americans don't want to buy which evidently, patently didn't want to.
- Jenkins and rest are the reason for this whole mess now. The criticisms were fully vindicated.
- no one wanted to buy the trust's shares and it's pretty obvious no one wanted to buy their shares. Strange comment.
- what fans trust wouldn't want protection? To pursue that shows strength. 5% is pretty pointless though.
- it wouldn't be in Silverstein's interest for the trust to join the CLN which is probably why they weren't asked to be involved and are having the particulars withheld.
- this has no relevance to inflation. This 500k barely covers what's been spent preparing for the case. They have the same restricted options for investment as previously.
- CLN has been discussed. The Americans with the casting vote wouldn't want them in or to weigh in at conversion - if they did less percent for JS.
- I thought this was business? The trust sucking up to the Americans isn't going to make them alter their CLN plans at the terns agreed (which the trust asked to informed of).
- the trust should have hoped we'd get back to the prem all along.
- give up because we're way off the prem, we won't be worth what Burnley were worth and the trust may not want to sell who the Americans may want to sell to. Let's face it, the two parties have differing levels of moral obligation. And if course the Americans have been complicit in the breaking of agreements previously.
- Theyve taken professional legal advice for years but decided to ignore it. |
You have all the answers apparently. I particularly like to point out to you two weeks ago I asked for the Trust to give full disclosure.
You stated that would be a bad thing and secrecy was required. | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 14:31 - Feb 17 with 1021 views | Chief |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 14:24 - Feb 17 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You have all the answers apparently. I particularly like to point out to you two weeks ago I asked for the Trust to give full disclosure.
You stated that would be a bad thing and secrecy was required. |
Two weeks ago every member was under the impression that the court case was proceeding | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 14:57 - Feb 17 with 997 views | Boundy |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 14:31 - Feb 17 by Chief |
Two weeks ago every member was under the impression that the court case was proceeding |
So true | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 16:44 - Feb 17 with 940 views | onehunglow |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 14:57 - Feb 17 by Boundy |
So true |
I was told repeated it was both imminent and we had a good case.
That said,that would have meant believing a Barrister . I mean…
No offence Jonalot
It would have done nothing for the club whatsoever
I await apologies from those chucking filth my way over the years as I was vehemently against it and stand by every word
It shows how we can all be wrong.ALL.of us
We need to make the club attractive to buy and it was never going to help us rid ourselves of these Owners | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:09 - Feb 17 with 916 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 16:44 - Feb 17 by onehunglow |
I was told repeated it was both imminent and we had a good case.
That said,that would have meant believing a Barrister . I mean…
No offence Jonalot
It would have done nothing for the club whatsoever
I await apologies from those chucking filth my way over the years as I was vehemently against it and stand by every word
It shows how we can all be wrong.ALL.of us
We need to make the club attractive to buy and it was never going to help us rid ourselves of these Owners |
Burnley were bought for £200m with £70m of that debt. The £70m debt is at 9% from the Dell corporation costs Burnley F C £6,3m in interest every year. (paying the owners debt)
This January they sold Woods for £15m and bought no one significant. If they want to pay off the debt hey need to pay about £13m every year for 10 years.
Levien and Kaplan bought Swansea with no debt and are due to invest as fans have wanted. They have also settled with the Trust with a tag on agreement but no drag on agreement.
This means that if a Burnley type buyer tries to buy Swansea the Trust will have to a make a big decision.
a) Sell up and take £20m +£2.75m*
b) Refuse to sell for the good of the club and chase away the buyer bringing debt.
c) Stay as a minor shareholder. (very risky)
* subject to T&Cs
One can assume if the buyer brings debt they will not be diluted although this is quite complicated. Dell or whoever could turn his on debt into shares and savagely dilute the Trust by turning the £70m into equity in the Championship. (not good)
My advice would to be to sell up .
All these decisions can be made NOW. It is just a matter of the members asking the right questions which they hardly ever do. | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:11 - Feb 17 with 914 views | Wingstandwood |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 16:44 - Feb 17 by onehunglow |
I was told repeated it was both imminent and we had a good case.
That said,that would have meant believing a Barrister . I mean…
No offence Jonalot
It would have done nothing for the club whatsoever
I await apologies from those chucking filth my way over the years as I was vehemently against it and stand by every word
It shows how we can all be wrong.ALL.of us
We need to make the club attractive to buy and it was never going to help us rid ourselves of these Owners |
Never chucked filth your way because that ain't my style, disagreed with you on what you were saying at the time though!
I was a SCST loyalist, I do not have any regret on that because of it's disabled supporter ethos/ties. Truth be told once upon a time it could do no wrong in my mind.
On the footballing/business side? I admit to being wrong and misjudged its effectiveness as a fighting-unit. The Bob Bradley farce really hit home to me regarding it's lack of influence. Bob Bradely was the stuff of parody that belonged more to CH4's "The comedy strip presents".
The lack of movement on legal action was telling also, IMO when someone spends too much time in the directors box with the other side a "Esprit de corps" relationship develops. No good that, way too cosy, way too close!
Regarding its leadership on a personal level? I regard (detest the site rivalry btw) Mr Sumbler to be one of life's good guys e.g. his fundraising for British Heart Foundation etc... But maybe It takes a sociapath to take on business people who tend to display sociapathic tendencies. Ruthless lot! | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:37 - Feb 17 with 885 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:11 - Feb 17 by Wingstandwood |
Never chucked filth your way because that ain't my style, disagreed with you on what you were saying at the time though!
I was a SCST loyalist, I do not have any regret on that because of it's disabled supporter ethos/ties. Truth be told once upon a time it could do no wrong in my mind.
On the footballing/business side? I admit to being wrong and misjudged its effectiveness as a fighting-unit. The Bob Bradley farce really hit home to me regarding it's lack of influence. Bob Bradely was the stuff of parody that belonged more to CH4's "The comedy strip presents".
The lack of movement on legal action was telling also, IMO when someone spends too much time in the directors box with the other side a "Esprit de corps" relationship develops. No good that, way too cosy, way too close!
Regarding its leadership on a personal level? I regard (detest the site rivalry btw) Mr Sumbler to be one of life's good guys e.g. his fundraising for British Heart Foundation etc... But maybe It takes a sociapath to take on business people who tend to display sociapathic tendencies. Ruthless lot! |
The approach of conflict, detachment and fiestiness in the board room has been given its chance to deliver and come up well short. The cosy comfortable ones in the board room now have millions in the bank. The Trust do not. | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:38 - Feb 17 with 883 views | onehunglow |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:11 - Feb 17 by Wingstandwood |
Never chucked filth your way because that ain't my style, disagreed with you on what you were saying at the time though!
I was a SCST loyalist, I do not have any regret on that because of it's disabled supporter ethos/ties. Truth be told once upon a time it could do no wrong in my mind.
On the footballing/business side? I admit to being wrong and misjudged its effectiveness as a fighting-unit. The Bob Bradley farce really hit home to me regarding it's lack of influence. Bob Bradely was the stuff of parody that belonged more to CH4's "The comedy strip presents".
The lack of movement on legal action was telling also, IMO when someone spends too much time in the directors box with the other side a "Esprit de corps" relationship develops. No good that, way too cosy, way too close!
Regarding its leadership on a personal level? I regard (detest the site rivalry btw) Mr Sumbler to be one of life's good guys e.g. his fundraising for British Heart Foundation etc... But maybe It takes a sociapath to take on business people who tend to display sociapathic tendencies. Ruthless lot! |
I know but many did. All are silent now accepting this perverse and pitiful decision was a dumb idea.
To suggest this action would not have affected matters on the field,as was stated many times,was madness .
We have had this hanging over us and so I’m glad it’s removed. Now begins the real work in transferring ownership of our beloved club. It is vital. The Yanks are a large lump of slime slithering about like worms in a pond .
To that end,maybe fans should concentrate on the club rather than how they feel. | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:40 - Feb 17 with 881 views | Chief |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:09 - Feb 17 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Burnley were bought for £200m with £70m of that debt. The £70m debt is at 9% from the Dell corporation costs Burnley F C £6,3m in interest every year. (paying the owners debt)
This January they sold Woods for £15m and bought no one significant. If they want to pay off the debt hey need to pay about £13m every year for 10 years.
Levien and Kaplan bought Swansea with no debt and are due to invest as fans have wanted. They have also settled with the Trust with a tag on agreement but no drag on agreement.
This means that if a Burnley type buyer tries to buy Swansea the Trust will have to a make a big decision.
a) Sell up and take £20m +£2.75m*
b) Refuse to sell for the good of the club and chase away the buyer bringing debt.
c) Stay as a minor shareholder. (very risky)
* subject to T&Cs
One can assume if the buyer brings debt they will not be diluted although this is quite complicated. Dell or whoever could turn his on debt into shares and savagely dilute the Trust by turning the £70m into equity in the Championship. (not good)
My advice would to be to sell up .
All these decisions can be made NOW. It is just a matter of the members asking the right questions which they hardly ever do. |
Burnley signed Wout Weghorst in January for around the same fee they sold Woods.
The Trusts decision cannot be made now because it's impossible to predict or when or how much any prospective buyer.
The Americans could sell to a genocidal African despot, but that wouldn't be a good look for the trust to sell them would it? | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:45 - Feb 17 with 873 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:40 - Feb 17 by Chief |
Burnley signed Wout Weghorst in January for around the same fee they sold Woods.
The Trusts decision cannot be made now because it's impossible to predict or when or how much any prospective buyer.
The Americans could sell to a genocidal African despot, but that wouldn't be a good look for the trust to sell them would it? |
Yes good correction I forgot about Wout. £12m.
If a Burnley type buyer comes in with a leveraged offer what to the Trust board do (given their record of keeping the members in the dark ).
You can ask them tonight if you like. Sell or hold.? It is a matter of principle not hypothetical. | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 18:23 - Feb 17 with 852 views | Dewi1jack |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 14:31 - Feb 17 by Chief |
Two weeks ago every member was under the impression that the court case was proceeding |
A couple of months ago I sent the Trust an email asking if they were going against the Trust members wishes on the last vote.
I know a few others did as well.
When the rumours of this stitch up started.
Resolven.
You've earned your drink off your scum bag sell out mates and this debacle, so do us all a favour and go away.
Don't go away mad
Just go away |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 18:23 - Feb 17 with 844 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 15:11 - Feb 16 by KeithHaynes |
Bank the money, disband the organisation and as you say remain silent. Personally and I know David Dalton, he isn’to blame. I think it has run its course, there’s no need for them. They have no voice, and represent not a lot as a result. As I said banking the money under some form of release agreement and disbanding them is the safer option all round. Just my opinion though.
Martin Morgan and Jake Silverstein seem to have played a blinder.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
He's the chairman, is he not?
How on Earth is he not to blame? |  |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 18:58 - Feb 17 with 805 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 18:23 - Feb 17 by Dewi1jack |
A couple of months ago I sent the Trust an email asking if they were going against the Trust members wishes on the last vote.
I know a few others did as well.
When the rumours of this stitch up started.
Resolven.
You've earned your drink off your scum bag sell out mates and this debacle, so do us all a favour and go away.
Don't go away mad
Just go away |
I would have some respect for you if you contributed more than £5 to the Trust 'fighting fund'. They did not have enough money and probably needed another £1m.
£1000 per member to the fighting fund would have been great. I The members would run a mile if they had to fund it themselves. They wanted to see a scrap and were only willing to hold the coats. | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 19:25 - Feb 17 with 776 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 18:23 - Feb 17 by Dewi1jack |
A couple of months ago I sent the Trust an email asking if they were going against the Trust members wishes on the last vote.
I know a few others did as well.
When the rumours of this stitch up started.
Resolven.
You've earned your drink off your scum bag sell out mates and this debacle, so do us all a favour and go away.
Don't go away mad
Just go away |
This !!! |  | | |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 20:15 - Feb 17 with 721 views | Chief |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 17:45 - Feb 17 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Yes good correction I forgot about Wout. £12m.
If a Burnley type buyer comes in with a leveraged offer what to the Trust board do (given their record of keeping the members in the dark ).
You can ask them tonight if you like. Sell or hold.? It is a matter of principle not hypothetical. |
Its impossible to predict what this board would judging by this deal they've signed up to they'd reject a very good deal with great prospective owners. | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 20:27 - Feb 17 with 710 views | KeithHaynes |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 18:23 - Feb 17 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
He's the chairman, is he not?
How on Earth is he not to blame? |
Because he isn’t the overall decider, and if I’m correct he wasn’t responsible for five years of decisions before him. You can cut the head off the snake but the snake still wriggles. There’s no way dave dalton can be blamed for this weeks decision as much as Phil four years ago. Pathetic to think otherwise. | |
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| Where do the trust go from here ? on 20:40 - Feb 17 with 687 views | Boundy |
| Where do the trust go from here ? on 20:27 - Feb 17 by KeithHaynes |
Because he isn’t the overall decider, and if I’m correct he wasn’t responsible for five years of decisions before him. You can cut the head off the snake but the snake still wriggles. There’s no way dave dalton can be blamed for this weeks decision as much as Phil four years ago. Pathetic to think otherwise. |
I appreciate he hasn't the final say but as Chairman then perhaps he should have reminded/guided board members of their duties. The vote to take legal action was 5 years ago , that decision hadn't changed either before or during his tenure | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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