| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards 13:27 - May 31 with 24187 views | KeithHaynes |
Matt Grimes, looks likely bids will be received.
Jay Fulton, has he done all he can at Swansea ?
Jamal Lowe, retain or put in the shop window ?
Jan Dhanda, there are a few suitors, let him leave ?
The swans will almost certainly retain
Ryan Bennett, Jake Bidwell, Joel Latibeaudiere, Ben Cabango, Conner Roberts, Korey Smith, Steven Benda, Ben Hamer, George Byers, Jordon Garrick, Morgan Whittaker, Liam Cullen, Ryan Manning. Oli Cooper, Brandon Cooper, Cameron Evans, Daniel Williams. ( Regards Roberts and Cabango, they need another Championship season for me )
Decisions to be made on Rushesha, Freeman, John, Webb, Gould, Mckay, Routledge
Possible inclusion for 2021/22 season ?
Al Hamadi, Govea.
Loan players, consider them all gone.
Out of contract Ayew, consider him gone.
Any thoughts ? I’ll pin this thread and amend etc, for the immediate future
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 10:43 - Jun 4 with 2082 views | KeithHaynes |
Retained: Adrian Akande, Steven Benda, Ryan Bennett, Jake Bidwell, George Byers, Ben Cabango, Rio Campbell, Brandon Cooper, Ollie Cooper, Liam Cullen, Yan Dhanda, Cameron Evans, Jay Fulton, Jordon Garrick, Josh Gould, Matt Grimes, Ben Hamer, Harry Jones, Joel Latibeaudiere, Jamal Lowe, Ryan Manning, Lincoln McFayden, Kyle Naughton, Connor Roberts, Tivonge Rushesha, Korey Smith, Josh Thomas, Lewis Webb, Morgan Whittaker, Daniel Williams. | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 11:05 - Jun 4 with 2048 views | Catullus |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 09:51 - Jun 4 by monmouth |
His tinkering, inability to know his best side, treatment of Mulder, and throwing away our chance of promotion with his inconsistency annoyed me with him. The direction of travel and the building of something that looked like it might be more sustainable and successful over time was in a different league to the one trick Hoofmeister we ended up with though. That’s the point for me, not a comparison of seasons where we ended up in the championship each time and used our precious parachute each time to do so.
We are in a much worse position now looking forward than after Potters year, for all its faults. |
Hence my saying I'm more concerned about a relegation struggle than anything else. Whoever is in charge by then, they will have to build a new team, we'll need 6/7 or even 8 new players from somewhere, it's a worry.
Our back 3/4/5 shorn of Guehi, our attack probably shorn of Ayew sothat's arguably our two best players gone anyway, even if others stay. |  |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 11:24 - Jun 4 with 2025 views | jack_lord |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 11:05 - Jun 4 by Catullus |
Hence my saying I'm more concerned about a relegation struggle than anything else. Whoever is in charge by then, they will have to build a new team, we'll need 6/7 or even 8 new players from somewhere, it's a worry.
Our back 3/4/5 shorn of Guehi, our attack probably shorn of Ayew sothat's arguably our two best players gone anyway, even if others stay. |
Our defence will be fine unless someone poached Cabango as we have latibeudiere.
I believe we would have been promoted if Wolves hadn't recalled Gibbs White so we are short of one player in midfield. I have no answer for the fron line promotion push but Lowe looked excellent at the end of the season when he had recovered from being run in to the ground and maybe a partnership with cullen and another will provide hope.
Again though, what happens if any of our other players are sold. |  |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:33 - Jun 4 with 1955 views | angryjack |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 11:24 - Jun 4 by jack_lord |
Our defence will be fine unless someone poached Cabango as we have latibeudiere.
I believe we would have been promoted if Wolves hadn't recalled Gibbs White so we are short of one player in midfield. I have no answer for the fron line promotion push but Lowe looked excellent at the end of the season when he had recovered from being run in to the ground and maybe a partnership with cullen and another will provide hope.
Again though, what happens if any of our other players are sold. |
"Lowe looked excellent"....come on,,against who,,excellent is Toney or pukki,,he's average at best,,, | | | |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:38 - Jun 4 with 1949 views | vetchonian |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:33 - Jun 4 by angryjack |
"Lowe looked excellent"....come on,,against who,,excellent is Toney or pukki,,he's average at best,,, |
Lowe who according to many on here was "run into the ground" by our haplless manager yet the two players you mentioned played
similar times in fact Toney more
Lowe 3436 mins
Toney 3850 mins
Pukki 3430 mins
Toney certainly didnt look fatigued in the final and the minutes played quoted above are before the play offs thee refer to the all the main season championship games [Post edited 4 Jun 2021 12:43]
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:43 - Jun 4 with 1934 views | angryjack |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:38 - Jun 4 by vetchonian |
Lowe who according to many on here was "run into the ground" by our haplless manager yet the two players you mentioned played
similar times in fact Toney more
Lowe 3436 mins
Toney 3850 mins
Pukki 3430 mins
Toney certainly didnt look fatigued in the final and the minutes played quoted above are before the play offs thee refer to the all the main season championship games [Post edited 4 Jun 2021 12:43]
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Exactly... | | | |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:43 - Jun 4 with 1934 views | jasper_T |
14 goals in a season is a good return. Could do with adding some assists to his game, though. | | | |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:47 - Jun 4 with 1929 views | vetchonian |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:43 - Jun 4 by jasper_T |
14 goals in a season is a good return. Could do with adding some assists to his game, though. |
and he failed to convert some golden chances I am sure hw will improve next season | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 13:14 - Jun 4 with 1907 views | Catullus |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:38 - Jun 4 by vetchonian |
Lowe who according to many on here was "run into the ground" by our haplless manager yet the two players you mentioned played
similar times in fact Toney more
Lowe 3436 mins
Toney 3850 mins
Pukki 3430 mins
Toney certainly didnt look fatigued in the final and the minutes played quoted above are before the play offs thee refer to the all the main season championship games [Post edited 4 Jun 2021 12:43]
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So how do we explain Lowe being so obvioulsy fatigued? Maybe it's not just about matches played, maybe training had something to do with it?
I suppose I could say Lowe wasn't trying, but he obviously was. Maybe he was working too hard doing defensive work. Sometimes he was on the edge of our own area, Ayew too, chasing back. Then he had to make 50 yards very quickly, it happened a lot, maybe that was the issue?
Whatever it was, Lowe was very obviously not 100% for quite a while. He wasn't the only one mind you, maybe it was being over worked in training. | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 14:14 - Jun 4 with 1846 views | vetchonian |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 13:14 - Jun 4 by Catullus |
So how do we explain Lowe being so obvioulsy fatigued? Maybe it's not just about matches played, maybe training had something to do with it?
I suppose I could say Lowe wasn't trying, but he obviously was. Maybe he was working too hard doing defensive work. Sometimes he was on the edge of our own area, Ayew too, chasing back. Then he had to make 50 yards very quickly, it happened a lot, maybe that was the issue?
Whatever it was, Lowe was very obviously not 100% for quite a while. He wasn't the only one mind you, maybe it was being over worked in training. |
Given the schedule I would doubt there would have been too much training as the days between games where not enough to facilitate this...unless of course we were getting of the bus late at night and then straight in the next morning for a "hard" training session. IF that were the case then serious questions need to be asked.....IF you look at the overall minutes played per squad in the top six ....it is only Norwich who appear to have had less average minutes played per player the other 5 all very similar.
As I have said often before I do not buy into pro sports personnel suffering from fatigue buts hey ho itas all about opinions the human body has shown that most humans can work and I mean work of over 8 hours sometimes 12 hours with a short rest between for 5 consecutive days yet a pro footballer who is "stresses" for 2 x 45 minute sessions with a 15 min rest between and at least 8 hours rest before next "working" is different? Not forgetting most of todays pros have spent form an early age being "condtioned" to the life supported by training dietry and physical development regimes | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 14:36 - Jun 4 with 1821 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 12:38 - Jun 4 by vetchonian |
Lowe who according to many on here was "run into the ground" by our haplless manager yet the two players you mentioned played
similar times in fact Toney more
Lowe 3436 mins
Toney 3850 mins
Pukki 3430 mins
Toney certainly didnt look fatigued in the final and the minutes played quoted above are before the play offs thee refer to the all the main season championship games [Post edited 4 Jun 2021 12:43]
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Cooper knackered Lowe out by February. Up until then he was using very few subs. Arriola and Morris were brought in to help out. Lowe after than was usually the first sub and by then was badly off form. He had lost his mojo and energy.
I am not a sports scientist. I put it to you that Brentford were sharper and fresher than Swansea having played more miniutes Its about management and pacing. Its about peaking at the right time and raising performance when it counts. Lowe, Roberts, Ayew Grimes Fulton did not do this. Watford and Bournemouth hit form at the right time. The proff is in the pudding. Swansea had to be as sharp as buttons at Wembley but wer not. There was an element of quitting too early. [Post edited 4 Jun 2021 14:44]
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 15:01 - Jun 4 with 1802 views | Chief |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 14:36 - Jun 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Cooper knackered Lowe out by February. Up until then he was using very few subs. Arriola and Morris were brought in to help out. Lowe after than was usually the first sub and by then was badly off form. He had lost his mojo and energy.
I am not a sports scientist. I put it to you that Brentford were sharper and fresher than Swansea having played more miniutes Its about management and pacing. Its about peaking at the right time and raising performance when it counts. Lowe, Roberts, Ayew Grimes Fulton did not do this. Watford and Bournemouth hit form at the right time. The proff is in the pudding. Swansea had to be as sharp as buttons at Wembley but wer not. There was an element of quitting too early. [Post edited 4 Jun 2021 14:44]
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That argument makes no sense considering the considerable easing up of the schedule towards the end of the season (when we rotated heavily) and the break to the play offs. None of our players were fatigued in relative terms anymore than Brentford's. Fatigue isn't a permanent state, every player had ample rest and we certainly didn't look tired in either semi final leg. And the figures in the post above demonstrate how their striker who'd played a lot of minutes dominated the game. We were racing around the pitch in the 2nd half like headless chickens at times v Brentford which lead to Fulton's red.
Brentford were simply a better football team than us over the course of a season (they finished 3rd after all, well ahead of us on points) and on the day. Time to accept it. |  |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 16:58 - Jun 4 with 1710 views | jack_lord |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 15:01 - Jun 4 by Chief |
That argument makes no sense considering the considerable easing up of the schedule towards the end of the season (when we rotated heavily) and the break to the play offs. None of our players were fatigued in relative terms anymore than Brentford's. Fatigue isn't a permanent state, every player had ample rest and we certainly didn't look tired in either semi final leg. And the figures in the post above demonstrate how their striker who'd played a lot of minutes dominated the game. We were racing around the pitch in the 2nd half like headless chickens at times v Brentford which lead to Fulton's red.
Brentford were simply a better football team than us over the course of a season (they finished 3rd after all, well ahead of us on points) and on the day. Time to accept it. |
Lowe's performance certainly improved when the schedule eased up.
Overall Brentford were a better football team though we certainly had the team to outplay them. I do believe that MGW would have been the player that would have seen up up automatically.
Our players were used in a different way to Brentford's as as been mention with the way the advanced players defended as well. | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:11 - Jun 4 with 1700 views | Badlands |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 15:01 - Jun 4 by Chief |
That argument makes no sense considering the considerable easing up of the schedule towards the end of the season (when we rotated heavily) and the break to the play offs. None of our players were fatigued in relative terms anymore than Brentford's. Fatigue isn't a permanent state, every player had ample rest and we certainly didn't look tired in either semi final leg. And the figures in the post above demonstrate how their striker who'd played a lot of minutes dominated the game. We were racing around the pitch in the 2nd half like headless chickens at times v Brentford which lead to Fulton's red.
Brentford were simply a better football team than us over the course of a season (they finished 3rd after all, well ahead of us on points) and on the day. Time to accept it. |
Fatigue is a medium to long term problem and linked to mental state. A good manager would avoid players becoming physically and mentally fatigued.
Brentford did get better because they were well drilled but they were also one of the scummiest sides I've seen for years.
In the second half of the season they dropped fewer points than us.
Given the fortune they shelled out in the January failure to secure automatic promotion must have been as disappointing to them as handing 20 points to very poor opposition was to us. |  |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:19 - Jun 4 with 1697 views | Chief |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:11 - Jun 4 by Badlands |
Fatigue is a medium to long term problem and linked to mental state. A good manager would avoid players becoming physically and mentally fatigued.
Brentford did get better because they were well drilled but they were also one of the scummiest sides I've seen for years.
In the second half of the season they dropped fewer points than us.
Given the fortune they shelled out in the January failure to secure automatic promotion must have been as disappointing to them as handing 20 points to very poor opposition was to us. |
It maybe a medium to long term problem (in reality it rarely is - see Lowe's improvement after a short break and the performance and effort of the side in the Barnsley games) but it's all relative. Brentford over the course of the season didn't rest their players to that much of a greater degree that would realistically make any difference, especially with the easing of the schedule that both sides had prior to the final.
As you allude to, they have / had a higher quality team compared to us. | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:20 - Jun 4 with 1691 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 15:01 - Jun 4 by Chief |
That argument makes no sense considering the considerable easing up of the schedule towards the end of the season (when we rotated heavily) and the break to the play offs. None of our players were fatigued in relative terms anymore than Brentford's. Fatigue isn't a permanent state, every player had ample rest and we certainly didn't look tired in either semi final leg. And the figures in the post above demonstrate how their striker who'd played a lot of minutes dominated the game. We were racing around the pitch in the 2nd half like headless chickens at times v Brentford which lead to Fulton's red.
Brentford were simply a better football team than us over the course of a season (they finished 3rd after all, well ahead of us on points) and on the day. Time to accept it. |
Footballers should not get fatuged or stale at all. This is sports science. Maximium performance for the maximum period. Ayew at 31 was hardly ever subsitituted. He only got rest when he was injured.
Racing around the pitch like headless chickens is just bad coaching and both Fulton and Grimes lost discipline. Both could have had reds. Both played poorly in the biggest game of the season.
Brentford are a better coached team than Swansea and have a better balanced squad. | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:23 - Jun 4 with 1690 views | Chief |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:20 - Jun 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Footballers should not get fatuged or stale at all. This is sports science. Maximium performance for the maximum period. Ayew at 31 was hardly ever subsitituted. He only got rest when he was injured.
Racing around the pitch like headless chickens is just bad coaching and both Fulton and Grimes lost discipline. Both could have had reds. Both played poorly in the biggest game of the season.
Brentford are a better coached team than Swansea and have a better balanced squad. |
Every player is different, some get fatigued more than others. To say none should is very naïve. It's reality, some do, even at the highest level.
And indeed, your last 2 paragraphs contain far more logical and realistic reasons for our loss rather than our players being tired but theirs magical fresh as daisies. | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:29 - Jun 4 with 1675 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:23 - Jun 4 by Chief |
Every player is different, some get fatigued more than others. To say none should is very naïve. It's reality, some do, even at the highest level.
And indeed, your last 2 paragraphs contain far more logical and realistic reasons for our loss rather than our players being tired but theirs magical fresh as daisies. |
Too many players played well below their potential. The reasons for this are not clear. It could be for a number of reasons. Independants analysist seem to suggest Brentford wanted it more. | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:30 - Jun 4 with 1677 views | jasper_T |
It was a compressed season. We know Cooper likes intense training sessions from interviews with players. Sports science only goes so far if players aren't afforded proper rest and recovery time. Some are machines who won't seem to feel it, some won't show it until they pull up with a hamstring tear, others look like they've been on the beers the night before if asked to play 90 minutes for the second time in a week.
Cash in their pocket doesn't seem to help unfortunately. The game gets faster with players running further every year. As conditioning improves so do the demands, it's competition after all. | | | |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:33 - Jun 4 with 1672 views | Chief |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:29 - Jun 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Too many players played well below their potential. The reasons for this are not clear. It could be for a number of reasons. Independants analysist seem to suggest Brentford wanted it more. |
Ah right if we'd 'wanted it more' that would have prevented Toney tormenting us.
Did anyone besides Hourihane really play below their potential!? | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:36 - Jun 4 with 1659 views | jack_lord |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:33 - Jun 4 by Chief |
Ah right if we'd 'wanted it more' that would have prevented Toney tormenting us.
Did anyone besides Hourihane really play below their potential!? |
Christ yes. They have done for years according to this and all the other forums. | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 18:28 - Jun 4 with 1605 views | Catullus |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 14:14 - Jun 4 by vetchonian |
Given the schedule I would doubt there would have been too much training as the days between games where not enough to facilitate this...unless of course we were getting of the bus late at night and then straight in the next morning for a "hard" training session. IF that were the case then serious questions need to be asked.....IF you look at the overall minutes played per squad in the top six ....it is only Norwich who appear to have had less average minutes played per player the other 5 all very similar.
As I have said often before I do not buy into pro sports personnel suffering from fatigue buts hey ho itas all about opinions the human body has shown that most humans can work and I mean work of over 8 hours sometimes 12 hours with a short rest between for 5 consecutive days yet a pro footballer who is "stresses" for 2 x 45 minute sessions with a 15 min rest between and at least 8 hours rest before next "working" is different? Not forgetting most of todays pros have spent form an early age being "condtioned" to the life supported by training dietry and physical development regimes |
When I was 22 I was working a 70 hour week and playing football twice a week in the Swansea league. So yes, I can partially agree. The difference is in the standars and the training.
We are talking elite athletes who put more in in 90 minutes than us mere mortals do in 3/4 games. Then they train hard too. They type and amount of trining really matters.
PS, when I was was 30 I was working 48- 60 hours a week and playing football twice, I ended up in hospital, completely burnt out I became ill and was so worn down it got serious. | |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 22:05 - Jun 4 with 1498 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 17:33 - Jun 4 by Chief |
Ah right if we'd 'wanted it more' that would have prevented Toney tormenting us.
Did anyone besides Hourihane really play below their potential!? |
Lowe and Ayew our two danger men were played through middle when they have been effective cutting in from out wide in final part of season and play off semi final playing in a more fluid 433.
We could have lost regardless so I’m not blaming Cooper for final but he dropped a b*llock and he pretty much admitted that when he changed to 433 as soon as we went 2 down and it was clear we were getting smashed. He went to a play off final and played for penalties before a ball was kicked. He knows that, and anyone without rose tinted specs on knows that. [Post edited 4 Jun 2021 22:08]
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 22:37 - Jun 4 with 1473 views | Dr_Winston |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 22:05 - Jun 4 by 34dfgdf54 |
Lowe and Ayew our two danger men were played through middle when they have been effective cutting in from out wide in final part of season and play off semi final playing in a more fluid 433.
We could have lost regardless so I’m not blaming Cooper for final but he dropped a b*llock and he pretty much admitted that when he changed to 433 as soon as we went 2 down and it was clear we were getting smashed. He went to a play off final and played for penalties before a ball was kicked. He knows that, and anyone without rose tinted specs on knows that. [Post edited 4 Jun 2021 22:08]
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The initial team selection and approach was rank cowardice on the part of Cooper, and the inevitable shifts to a more aggressive approach just an admission of that. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 01:39 - Jun 5 with 1398 views | Chief |
| Decision days ahead from June 1st onwards on 22:05 - Jun 4 by 34dfgdf54 |
Lowe and Ayew our two danger men were played through middle when they have been effective cutting in from out wide in final part of season and play off semi final playing in a more fluid 433.
We could have lost regardless so I’m not blaming Cooper for final but he dropped a b*llock and he pretty much admitted that when he changed to 433 as soon as we went 2 down and it was clear we were getting smashed. He went to a play off final and played for penalties before a ball was kicked. He knows that, and anyone without rose tinted specs on knows that. [Post edited 4 Jun 2021 22:08]
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Yea I totally agree, Cooper got the tactics and certain selections wrong.
Brentford would still have probably beaten us as you say but barely laid a glove on them. [Post edited 5 Jun 2021 1:41]
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