| The lack of concern! 06:52 - Mar 25 with 6800 views | TalkingSutty |
Firstly, hats off to Mark Hodkinson and a big thank you for putting in the time and effort to highlight the very perilous state of the Club, he’s a professional journalist and this will have been done in his own time because of his obviously concern for the Club he loves.
It’s pretty obvious reading between the lines that the Club is collapsing and we need a new Boardroom, we also need a new CEO as quickly as possible and a new manager, we’ve needed one of those for months. Neither are fit for purpose, that’s the reality. We have a manager who has overseen our worst home record in living memory and that will probably eventually end up as being the worst in the 114 year history of the club..out of embarrassment he should have resigned and if not he should have been sacked, instead somebody has rewarded him with a new contract on the quiet and destroyed upcoming season ticket sales in a instant.The rest of the Directors aren’t fit for purpose neither, firstly for allowing it to happen and secondly for now standing back and accepting the situation, it’s a dereliction of duty from each of them. At least try to retrieve the situation and show some balls.
The lack of concern comes from the fan base and this forum is a great example of it, the amount of regular posters who can’t be bothered to contribute to the debate, there is more interest in how ex players are performing, or stats of the day etc. If supporters are ambivalent or feel compromised then at least contribute and maybe put up a defence for the CEO, BBM, Directors, show a bit of concern or worry about the club, it’s better than doing nothing and keeping quiet. Will these same fans keep quiet if the club goes to the wall, or will they go all bury like and start pretending they didn’t know there was a problem?
As a fan base we are quiet though aren’t we, the Supporters Trust maybe reflect the majority of the fan base, passive and and don’t want to rock the boat, the silence from them has been one of the biggest disappointments over the last few months, if you are there to represent the fans and look after the club then at least come out fighting and find your voice. Personally, i think there is a real danger that the club won’t start next season but the lack of concern from many fans now has me thinking that is a over reaction, i hope i’m wrong obviously. |  | | |  |
| The lack of concern! on 07:27 - Mar 25 with 5362 views | James1980 |
Should Chris Dunphy go public about what actually transpired preceding him leaving the board room? I know there will be those itk that know already and I'm not sure if it would do more harm than good. I'm just considering can any sort of healing process really start until everything is out in the open. |  |
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| The lack of concern! on 07:59 - Mar 25 with 5322 views | TalkingSutty |
| The lack of concern! on 07:27 - Mar 25 by James1980 |
Should Chris Dunphy go public about what actually transpired preceding him leaving the board room? I know there will be those itk that know already and I'm not sure if it would do more harm than good. I'm just considering can any sort of healing process really start until everything is out in the open. |
When Chris Dunphy and Bill Goodwin left the Club there had been a big overspend on the playing budget that season but even so, the Club was still in good financial health and in the black. Bill Goodwin was actually covering as the temporary CEO/Club Secretary just prior to him leaving and knew the balance sheet when they left the club. Chris Dunphy actually stated on his departure that he was leaving the Club in good health and nobody in the Boardroom refuted that claim at the time.
Since their departure the Club have generated millions of pounds in revenue that wouldn’t have been budgeted for due to FA Cup/league cup draws, player sales, transfer add ons, FA Cup Television/ prize money etc. I roughly worked it out as something like £4 million over the last two years or so, it’s been a golden period for the club in that respect, probably our best ever two year period? You can start counting that excess revenue from when Hill started his fire sale prior to his sacking.
The thing that became obvious to me from the start was the slashing of the playing budget over this period, it obviously needed trimming after Hills meltdown but it’s been cut to a level that now sees us struggling to compete and i think it’s been done because there has been a misguided notion that the kids from the academy could come in and still make us competitive while drastically reducing the wage bill. It’s all about the academy if you speak to the CEO and not the first team, which should always be the number one priority. We have afforded a new pitch and are recruiting plenty of non playing staff during the pandemic, so the club obviously cant be as skint as the CEO has suggested, you don’t recruit staff if that’s the case. The person who runs the club obviously isn’t a football person and it shows. | | | |
| The lack of concern! on 08:36 - Mar 25 with 5261 views | nordenblue |
| The lack of concern! on 07:27 - Mar 25 by James1980 |
Should Chris Dunphy go public about what actually transpired preceding him leaving the board room? I know there will be those itk that know already and I'm not sure if it would do more harm than good. I'm just considering can any sort of healing process really start until everything is out in the open. |
Chris Dunphy has nothing to gain from "going public" about anything, his departure it appears in the main to have been forced and no other option if things are to be believed, there's one thing for sure I'd love to see him sat at the top of the table again rather than any of the remaining inept clowns, I wouldnt pay Bottomley spare change, Rawlinson looked like the forum got in the way of his afternoon nap and the less said about AK the better for me, big big problems which in many ways had been predicted straight after Mr Dunphy flew the nest [Post edited 25 Mar 2021 9:10]
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| The lack of concern! on 08:58 - Mar 25 with 5214 views | Dalenet |
| The lack of concern! on 07:59 - Mar 25 by TalkingSutty |
When Chris Dunphy and Bill Goodwin left the Club there had been a big overspend on the playing budget that season but even so, the Club was still in good financial health and in the black. Bill Goodwin was actually covering as the temporary CEO/Club Secretary just prior to him leaving and knew the balance sheet when they left the club. Chris Dunphy actually stated on his departure that he was leaving the Club in good health and nobody in the Boardroom refuted that claim at the time.
Since their departure the Club have generated millions of pounds in revenue that wouldn’t have been budgeted for due to FA Cup/league cup draws, player sales, transfer add ons, FA Cup Television/ prize money etc. I roughly worked it out as something like £4 million over the last two years or so, it’s been a golden period for the club in that respect, probably our best ever two year period? You can start counting that excess revenue from when Hill started his fire sale prior to his sacking.
The thing that became obvious to me from the start was the slashing of the playing budget over this period, it obviously needed trimming after Hills meltdown but it’s been cut to a level that now sees us struggling to compete and i think it’s been done because there has been a misguided notion that the kids from the academy could come in and still make us competitive while drastically reducing the wage bill. It’s all about the academy if you speak to the CEO and not the first team, which should always be the number one priority. We have afforded a new pitch and are recruiting plenty of non playing staff during the pandemic, so the club obviously cant be as skint as the CEO has suggested, you don’t recruit staff if that’s the case. The person who runs the club obviously isn’t a football person and it shows. |
Welcome back to the debate
I have no idea whether we're being told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But when Finance Director says we are currently on a knife edge and still don't have a full cashflow solution to finish the season (his words at the forum) then we should accept we are skint. The only chink of light is that we are still due some transfer money later in the year.
The club has been clear that we have lost £2m in revenue due to covid but we still incurred a full operating/playing budget cost. Furlough helped for 5 months but nothing more. The pitch was rebuilt using a council loan. We didn't pay for it upfront and so haven't used the reserves to do that. As I understand it, despite the playing budget cuts, we have used previous years reserves to simply survive this season. The pot is now empty.
I can't see how the club can recover that £2m in lost income next season. If relegated are we seriously going to see 3500 people per game. Will we really sell 2000 season tickets? It is indeed a worrying time.
Mr Rawlinson was adamant there was a plan. He still hasn't shared it. But maybe he hasn't been given it yet. | | | |
| The lack of concern! on 09:13 - Mar 25 with 5177 views | HK_Dale |
There are certainly some concerning signs in the running of the club when looking at the financial statements. God knows what the '20 Financial Statements will show!
Some lowlights from previous years:
18-19
-Gross Profit Decreased 59%
-Total Operating Loss increased 330%
-Cash at Bank decreased 65%
-Liabilities increased 76%
-Total Net Assets decreased by 47%
-Net Margin went from -6% to -25%
-Operating Margin went from -5% to -24%
-(Solvency)Debt/Equity Ratio went from 37% to 123%
-(Liquidity) Quick Ratio went from 3.65 to 0.95
Compared to 17-18
-Gross Profit Decreased by 46% but was still almost £1m higher than '19
-Change of -120% moving from Operating Profit to and Operating Loss
-Cash at Bank increased by 128% to £1.2m
-Liabilities increased 34%
-Total Net Assets decreased by 11% |  | | |
| The lack of concern! on 09:26 - Mar 25 with 5138 views | judd |
| The lack of concern! on 09:13 - Mar 25 by HK_Dale |
There are certainly some concerning signs in the running of the club when looking at the financial statements. God knows what the '20 Financial Statements will show!
Some lowlights from previous years:
18-19
-Gross Profit Decreased 59%
-Total Operating Loss increased 330%
-Cash at Bank decreased 65%
-Liabilities increased 76%
-Total Net Assets decreased by 47%
-Net Margin went from -6% to -25%
-Operating Margin went from -5% to -24%
-(Solvency)Debt/Equity Ratio went from 37% to 123%
-(Liquidity) Quick Ratio went from 3.65 to 0.95
Compared to 17-18
-Gross Profit Decreased by 46% but was still almost £1m higher than '19
-Change of -120% moving from Operating Profit to and Operating Loss
-Cash at Bank increased by 128% to £1.2m
-Liabilities increased 34%
-Total Net Assets decreased by 11% |
According to the Forbes interview from last September and the forum, a profit of c. £1.5m is expected, largely down to transfer fees, sell on clauses and cup ties v premier league opponents.
We undoubtedly had cash reserves going into this season. |  |
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| The lack of concern! on 09:44 - Mar 25 with 5087 views | D_Alien |
The bell-weather for football fans on whether a club is truly financially distressed tends to be when stories appear in the media about players wages not being paid on time
If noises coming out of the club are to be believed, will the CEO continue paying himself a salary if this eventuality were to come about?
Whether or not his LinkedIn details are uptodate or not, shouldn't he be looking for alternative employment on the basis of his own statements? Or those of the director overseeing finance? |  |
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| The lack of concern! on 11:10 - Mar 25 with 4930 views | watford_dale |
| The lack of concern! on 09:44 - Mar 25 by D_Alien |
The bell-weather for football fans on whether a club is truly financially distressed tends to be when stories appear in the media about players wages not being paid on time
If noises coming out of the club are to be believed, will the CEO continue paying himself a salary if this eventuality were to come about?
Whether or not his LinkedIn details are uptodate or not, shouldn't he be looking for alternative employment on the basis of his own statements? Or those of the director overseeing finance? |
I think the pain will come next season, if we make it through this one, with a downturn on the season ticket uptake. Did we shift 800 - 1000 this season in the demonstration of fans commitment to the club by buying a ticket they were never going to use. Expect the same/slightly above if this season goes ahead plus its over year and so expect divestment/generation of alternates for a saturday afternoon from some.
Yes the CEO will continue to pay himself.
No he won't be looking for another job whilst he is securing payment with us, why would you? There's still some milking to be done. | | | |
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| The lack of concern! on 11:37 - Mar 25 with 4896 views | DaleiLama |
I'm not sure there is a lack of concern TS. Those more itk have maybe had better and earlier access to info/insider knowledge than those remote from the situation, the club and the area. I also suspect generally there has been a collective dropping of jaws to varying extents among the fan base as more and more has been revealed (drip fed from Judd, Fitozchris, Mark, the fans forum, the Trust etc in no particular order over a period of time, as the situation has evolved) about the apparent goings on behind the scenes, the mire we are in and how the club is being run.
For me, the issue now is not lack of concern, but what action the fanbase can take, who is willing/able to co-ordinate that action and how many will back it? Being "nice" and having an MOU between club and Trust which the club appears to pay lip service to has led us to here. If a different outcome is now desired, a different approach would seem to be necessary. I would suggest that this has to at least be what most feel is now required for any further action to have a chance of having any success? |  |
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| The lack of concern! on 11:49 - Mar 25 with 4870 views | kel |
“It’s not up to you to tell posters what they can and can’t discuss”
Wonder who said that... |  | | |
| The lack of concern! on 11:51 - Mar 25 with 4860 views | kel |
“This forum is pretty irrelevant anyway, as much as some think it isn’t...if we can scrape together maybe 30 regular posters ( at a push), it equates to about 1% of the fan base. It’s a bunch of the same old people ,myself included, going around in circles...similar to a lunatic asylum really. The 99% who don’t post are the lucky ones”
But now it’s being used as a barometer for how folk should be feeling? I could spend all day pointing out hypocrisy from the OP. | | | |
| The lack of concern! on 11:52 - Mar 25 with 4858 views | TalkingSutty |
| The lack of concern! on 11:37 - Mar 25 by DaleiLama |
I'm not sure there is a lack of concern TS. Those more itk have maybe had better and earlier access to info/insider knowledge than those remote from the situation, the club and the area. I also suspect generally there has been a collective dropping of jaws to varying extents among the fan base as more and more has been revealed (drip fed from Judd, Fitozchris, Mark, the fans forum, the Trust etc in no particular order over a period of time, as the situation has evolved) about the apparent goings on behind the scenes, the mire we are in and how the club is being run.
For me, the issue now is not lack of concern, but what action the fanbase can take, who is willing/able to co-ordinate that action and how many will back it? Being "nice" and having an MOU between club and Trust which the club appears to pay lip service to has led us to here. If a different outcome is now desired, a different approach would seem to be necessary. I would suggest that this has to at least be what most feel is now required for any further action to have a chance of having any success? |
The apparent lack of concern from shareholders is also worrying...is there a reason why a EGM hasn’t been called, would a virtual meeting not be possible? | | | |
| The lack of concern! on 11:52 - Mar 25 with 4856 views | nordenblue |
| The lack of concern! on 11:10 - Mar 25 by watford_dale |
I think the pain will come next season, if we make it through this one, with a downturn on the season ticket uptake. Did we shift 800 - 1000 this season in the demonstration of fans commitment to the club by buying a ticket they were never going to use. Expect the same/slightly above if this season goes ahead plus its over year and so expect divestment/generation of alternates for a saturday afternoon from some.
Yes the CEO will continue to pay himself.
No he won't be looking for another job whilst he is securing payment with us, why would you? There's still some milking to be done. |
Won't be any milk left in the cow very soon,so good luck with that one, looks very much like someone's had all the cream already | | | |
| The lack of concern! on 12:16 - Mar 25 with 4795 views | dawlishdale |
| The lack of concern! on 11:51 - Mar 25 by kel |
“This forum is pretty irrelevant anyway, as much as some think it isn’t...if we can scrape together maybe 30 regular posters ( at a push), it equates to about 1% of the fan base. It’s a bunch of the same old people ,myself included, going around in circles...similar to a lunatic asylum really. The 99% who don’t post are the lucky ones”
But now it’s being used as a barometer for how folk should be feeling? I could spend all day pointing out hypocrisy from the OP. |
Crikey Ignore what's going on if you want, but we are staring into the abyss.
This forum is a very important barometer of the mood of an admittedly small section of the fanbase. However, I'd wager that the few who bother to post on here are more itk than the silent majority.
Please everyone be warned... the actions and decisions that have been taken in the last couple of years by certain individuals on the Board are putting the future of the football club in serious peril.
Time for an EGM and a vote of no confidence in the CEO. | | | |
| The lack of concern! on 12:21 - Mar 25 with 4784 views | kel |
| The lack of concern! on 12:16 - Mar 25 by dawlishdale |
Crikey Ignore what's going on if you want, but we are staring into the abyss.
This forum is a very important barometer of the mood of an admittedly small section of the fanbase. However, I'd wager that the few who bother to post on here are more itk than the silent majority.
Please everyone be warned... the actions and decisions that have been taken in the last couple of years by certain individuals on the Board are putting the future of the football club in serious peril.
Time for an EGM and a vote of no confidence in the CEO. |
Who says I’m ignoring anything? I’m merely pointing out that the OP previously stated this forum is largely irrelevant but now is concerned that this forum isn’t showing any concern.
These days we have the likes of WhatsApp and messenger where people can discuss things in groups should they so wish to. Maybe I’ve shown concern on there or perhaps even to another prominent poster on here via text.
Most of the people I go to games with don’t post on here at all or very rarely but I am in contact with them via other means.
Calm yourself down.
Edit - the clue is in the quotation marks. You’re welcome. [Post edited 25 Mar 2021 12:27]
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| The lack of concern! on 12:59 - Mar 25 with 4692 views | seasidedale |
I know they said at the forum we expect to make a profit on last season of £1.5 million. This will have offset the previous seasons loss of £1.25 million (I think) so we are only slightly up but before COVID so had a small amount to use before all the ins and out of this season, could be a lot worse | | | |
| The lack of concern! on 13:01 - Mar 25 with 4685 views | boromat |
| The lack of concern! on 08:58 - Mar 25 by Dalenet |
Welcome back to the debate
I have no idea whether we're being told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But when Finance Director says we are currently on a knife edge and still don't have a full cashflow solution to finish the season (his words at the forum) then we should accept we are skint. The only chink of light is that we are still due some transfer money later in the year.
The club has been clear that we have lost £2m in revenue due to covid but we still incurred a full operating/playing budget cost. Furlough helped for 5 months but nothing more. The pitch was rebuilt using a council loan. We didn't pay for it upfront and so haven't used the reserves to do that. As I understand it, despite the playing budget cuts, we have used previous years reserves to simply survive this season. The pot is now empty.
I can't see how the club can recover that £2m in lost income next season. If relegated are we seriously going to see 3500 people per game. Will we really sell 2000 season tickets? It is indeed a worrying time.
Mr Rawlinson was adamant there was a plan. He still hasn't shared it. But maybe he hasn't been given it yet. |
Maybe he's getting mixed up and that was last year's plan?  | |
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| The lack of concern! on 13:08 - Mar 25 with 4647 views | D_Alien |
| The lack of concern! on 13:01 - Mar 25 by boromat |
Maybe he's getting mixed up and that was last year's plan? |
There's no 'maybe' about it. He didn't know what year it is when he woke up | |
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| The lack of concern! on 13:15 - Mar 25 with 4624 views | 49thseason |
| The lack of concern! on 13:01 - Mar 25 by boromat |
Maybe he's getting mixed up and that was last year's plan? |
They are planning for the Americans to take over the club. |  | | |
| The lack of concern! on 13:46 - Mar 25 with 4562 views | Toffeemanc |
| The lack of concern! on 13:15 - Mar 25 by 49thseason |
They are planning for the Americans to take over the club. |
They are probably more or less begging them to take over the club.
On the other hand the silence from the Dan and Emre is deafening and the longer it continues the less likely it looks like they will join the board. |  |
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| The lack of concern! on 14:08 - Mar 25 with 4520 views | D_Alien |
| The lack of concern! on 13:46 - Mar 25 by Toffeemanc |
They are probably more or less begging them to take over the club.
On the other hand the silence from the Dan and Emre is deafening and the longer it continues the less likely it looks like they will join the board. |
Or, having been 'gamed' once by the club regarding shares, they've got enough business experience to bide their time until they're able to take over on their terms | |
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| The lack of concern! on 14:09 - Mar 25 with 4523 views | tony_roch975 |
| The lack of concern! on 09:26 - Mar 25 by judd |
According to the Forbes interview from last September and the forum, a profit of c. £1.5m is expected, largely down to transfer fees, sell on clauses and cup ties v premier league opponents.
We undoubtedly had cash reserves going into this season. |
but not necessarily enough to weather the Covid storm - key issue is football clubs are a cash-flow business so a profit at the year end is no use if you couldn't pay the wages for a period | |
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| The lack of concern! on 14:16 - Mar 25 with 4493 views | judd |
| The lack of concern! on 14:09 - Mar 25 by tony_roch975 |
but not necessarily enough to weather the Covid storm - key issue is football clubs are a cash-flow business so a profit at the year end is no use if you couldn't pay the wages for a period |
I was replying to HKDales question of how the 2020 financial statement might look.
We have 2 separate directors put into the public domain the expected profit, explained by those events I listed.
I expressed an opinion on how the financial statement might look in terms of the cash position.
I neither opined nor alluded on how 2020-21 has been managed. | |
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| The lack of concern! on 16:16 - Mar 25 with 4318 views | tony_roch975 |
| The lack of concern! on 14:16 - Mar 25 by judd |
I was replying to HKDales question of how the 2020 financial statement might look.
We have 2 separate directors put into the public domain the expected profit, explained by those events I listed.
I expressed an opinion on how the financial statement might look in terms of the cash position.
I neither opined nor alluded on how 2020-21 has been managed. |
but you did claim "We undoubtedly had cash reserves going into this season." - doesn't that imply there shouldn't be the dire financial projections the Board have issued or that there has been mismanagement; I reiterate my point that cash-flow is more important than Profit & Loss for a football club | |
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| The lack of concern! on 16:37 - Mar 25 with 4285 views | judd |
| The lack of concern! on 16:16 - Mar 25 by tony_roch975 |
but you did claim "We undoubtedly had cash reserves going into this season." - doesn't that imply there shouldn't be the dire financial projections the Board have issued or that there has been mismanagement; I reiterate my point that cash-flow is more important than Profit & Loss for a football club |
No it does no imply anything of the sort. I don't think I have read anything so ridiculous on here since Tazzy departed.
Cash reserves going into this season is a credit to the board for the financial performance of the previous year, the year under discussion in my response to HKDale.
The board, again to their credit, citing extraordinary activities for this cash position.
I can assure you that I never equate profits with cash, neither. | |
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