| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly 18:04 - May 18 with 118888 views | krunchykarrot |
The time has come, second rate at best. |  | | |  |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:48 - Sep 4 with 1600 views | exhmrc1 |
Wales dont have border powers. The UK government has responsibilities and powers under the Border rules. The Welsh Senydd has responsibility for Health issues in Wales and once people are out of the airport then it sets rules. It might be worth reading Drakeford's comments at the time that Air Bridges were brought in.
Wales First Minister Mark Drakeford has branded the UK government's handling of plans for air bridges so people can go on holiday as "shambolic".
Mr Drakeford rejected claims by the UK government that the devolved administrations were holding up plans to allow people to travel abroad without being quarantined for two weeks.
The air bridges plan is supposed to allow holidays to Spain, France, Germany and Italy from July 10 - and to allow people from those countries to visit here.
But speaking at the daily briefing on Friday, Mr Drakeford said that their discussions with the UK Government had been an "utterly shambolic experience" and accused them of making an announcement before having the plans in place.
He also described the discussions as "impossible" and they had been trying to get a "sensible answer" and they still hadn't seen a list of countries that will be on the list.
"I've seen it as our responsibility to put onto the statute book here in Wales the regulations that allow that UK scheme to operate here in Wales," Mr Drakeford said.
"But dealing with the UK Government over the last few days has been an utterly shambolic experience.
"If ever there was an example of making an announcement first and then trying to work out what you meant by it - that is what we have seen since this announcement was first trailed in the press."
He added: "There is no hold up at all as far as this devolved country is concerned," Mr Drakeford said. "The truth is there has not been a set of proposals that have been settled to agree on, they never appear to be capable of making their minds up.
"As soon as they tell us what they intend to do then we will get a view from our chief medical officer, and if there is no risk then we will go to the Senedd and get it on the statute books. But the law requires us to take that independent assessment."
He said: "They shouldn't make an announcement and then work out how they are going to do it." |  | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:05 - Sep 4 with 1562 views | felixstowe_jack |
Seems Drakeford and co panicked over Portugal. The infection rate of peope testing positive, when the travel ban was lifted was 1.8% last week it dropped to 1.6% but because Portugal has increased the amount of testing there infection rate per 100,000 is now just over 20.
Seems Drakeford did not have all the scientific data.
The more testing you do the more cases you find even though the positive test rate falls.
If wales doubled the number of tests it does then thier rate per 100,000 would also increase.
Quite rightly the UK government decided Portgual was marginal and would wait for more data.
Nicola and Drakeford just did their own thing as usual. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 15:35 - Sep 4 with 1577 views | Scotia |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:48 - Sep 4 by exhmrc1 |
Wales dont have border powers. The UK government has responsibilities and powers under the Border rules. The Welsh Senydd has responsibility for Health issues in Wales and once people are out of the airport then it sets rules. It might be worth reading Drakeford's comments at the time that Air Bridges were brought in.
Wales First Minister Mark Drakeford has branded the UK government's handling of plans for air bridges so people can go on holiday as "shambolic".
Mr Drakeford rejected claims by the UK government that the devolved administrations were holding up plans to allow people to travel abroad without being quarantined for two weeks.
The air bridges plan is supposed to allow holidays to Spain, France, Germany and Italy from July 10 - and to allow people from those countries to visit here.
But speaking at the daily briefing on Friday, Mr Drakeford said that their discussions with the UK Government had been an "utterly shambolic experience" and accused them of making an announcement before having the plans in place.
He also described the discussions as "impossible" and they had been trying to get a "sensible answer" and they still hadn't seen a list of countries that will be on the list.
"I've seen it as our responsibility to put onto the statute book here in Wales the regulations that allow that UK scheme to operate here in Wales," Mr Drakeford said.
"But dealing with the UK Government over the last few days has been an utterly shambolic experience.
"If ever there was an example of making an announcement first and then trying to work out what you meant by it - that is what we have seen since this announcement was first trailed in the press."
He added: "There is no hold up at all as far as this devolved country is concerned," Mr Drakeford said. "The truth is there has not been a set of proposals that have been settled to agree on, they never appear to be capable of making their minds up.
"As soon as they tell us what they intend to do then we will get a view from our chief medical officer, and if there is no risk then we will go to the Senedd and get it on the statute books. But the law requires us to take that independent assessment."
He said: "They shouldn't make an announcement and then work out how they are going to do it." |
Wales have been able to do what they want regarding quarantine of international arrivals since day one. It is health matter which is devolved.
Utterly pointless though as the WG have no idea who is flying in and out of Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool.
They be better off enforcing social distancing in pubs, gyms and transport. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:07 - Sep 4 with 1525 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 15:35 - Sep 4 by Scotia |
Wales have been able to do what they want regarding quarantine of international arrivals since day one. It is health matter which is devolved.
Utterly pointless though as the WG have no idea who is flying in and out of Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool.
They be better off enforcing social distancing in pubs, gyms and transport. |
Infection rate in caerphilly is 30 per 100,000. That is 50% more than Portugal. Does everyone who visits caerphilly have to quarantine for 14 days? | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:19 - Sep 4 with 1548 views | Scotia |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:07 - Sep 4 by felixstowe_jack |
Infection rate in caerphilly is 30 per 100,000. That is 50% more than Portugal. Does everyone who visits caerphilly have to quarantine for 14 days? |
Of course the cynic in me thinks it's a way for Drakeford to get back at Ryanair for flying when asked not to during his absurd 5 mile restriction, seeing as one of their only routes from Cardiff is to the Algarve.
Surely he's not that childish. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:12 - Sep 4 with 1541 views | exhmrc1 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 15:35 - Sep 4 by Scotia |
Wales have been able to do what they want regarding quarantine of international arrivals since day one. It is health matter which is devolved.
Utterly pointless though as the WG have no idea who is flying in and out of Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool.
They be better off enforcing social distancing in pubs, gyms and transport. |
As far as social distancing in pubs and gyms it is you who spent ages on here telling everyone how they should reopen. They have reopened and guess what there has been a significant rise in cases. As far as enforcing social distancing I agree it needs to be done. However people sitting on the same table and playing pool with shared cues was always going to happen. Shame you couldnt realise that when you were criticising the senydd for not opening them.
As for the issue regarding Air Bridges they should never have been introduced despite your support for them. How many times since they have been introduced have the UK government changed the countries. As far as Portugal the current figures there show over 3 times the rates of infections there we currently have in Wales. It is over the 20 per 100000 that the UK government says air bridges need to be below. 23 is the current figure for Portugal yet Johnson and Co ignore that due to the embarassment of announcing that there would be an air bridge with Portugal only to have to announce the change on the day it was meant to happen.
Wales does not have the power to impose quarantine as you yourself has said previously. Quarantine would apply to all passengers not only Welsh ones. They do have power over health issues for residents in Wales wherever a plane lands and everyone in Wales has a public duty to follow the law as it stands and that is whatever airport they come through.
Your comment regarding Ryan Air should be treated with the contempt it deserves. They are not the only airline who will be affected but that is obviously way beyond your understanding. Also it isnt just Wales but Scotland. Do they hate Ryan Air as well. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:16 - Sep 4 with 1529 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:31 - Sep 4 by felixstowe_jack |
EU undemocratic
UK democratic
Can you not see the difference ?
People of UK including Wales voted to leave EU
can you not see the difference? |
So ....nobody votes for the House of Lords, HoL seats are reserved for clergy (like Iran), we have a fecking Royal family, no constitution, and the FPTP system is hugely out of date. Nobody wants to join.
Whereas the EU is modern, democratic, progressive and peoples are queuing up to join.
Brexit impacts Ireland so the EU ensured their interests were looked after as a priority. This has meant Johnson agreeing to a border in the Irish Sea and people in Northern Ireland being treated as EU Citizens for migration purposes.
Brexit impacts both Wales and Scotland so the UK government ensured their interests were not looked after as the priority was to exclude the Welsh Govt and the Scottish Govt from the talks. This did not have to be the case. This has meant Comrade Nicola getting ready for Indy2.
Looking forward to you owning the Brexit disaster in 2021. 🤡 |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:59 - Sep 4 with 1512 views | Andy1300 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:07 - Sep 4 by felixstowe_jack |
Infection rate in caerphilly is 30 per 100,000. That is 50% more than Portugal. Does everyone who visits caerphilly have to quarantine for 14 days? |
And there you have it.
The sheer stupidity of these rules |  |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:04 - Sep 4 with 1509 views | Catullus |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:59 - Sep 4 by Andy1300 |
And there you have it.
The sheer stupidity of these rules |
Not to forget the stupidity of those making these rules! | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:32 - Sep 4 with 1501 views | Scotia |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:12 - Sep 4 by exhmrc1 |
As far as social distancing in pubs and gyms it is you who spent ages on here telling everyone how they should reopen. They have reopened and guess what there has been a significant rise in cases. As far as enforcing social distancing I agree it needs to be done. However people sitting on the same table and playing pool with shared cues was always going to happen. Shame you couldnt realise that when you were criticising the senydd for not opening them.
As for the issue regarding Air Bridges they should never have been introduced despite your support for them. How many times since they have been introduced have the UK government changed the countries. As far as Portugal the current figures there show over 3 times the rates of infections there we currently have in Wales. It is over the 20 per 100000 that the UK government says air bridges need to be below. 23 is the current figure for Portugal yet Johnson and Co ignore that due to the embarassment of announcing that there would be an air bridge with Portugal only to have to announce the change on the day it was meant to happen.
Wales does not have the power to impose quarantine as you yourself has said previously. Quarantine would apply to all passengers not only Welsh ones. They do have power over health issues for residents in Wales wherever a plane lands and everyone in Wales has a public duty to follow the law as it stands and that is whatever airport they come through.
Your comment regarding Ryan Air should be treated with the contempt it deserves. They are not the only airline who will be affected but that is obviously way beyond your understanding. Also it isnt just Wales but Scotland. Do they hate Ryan Air as well. |
I'll keep this as succinct as possible.
The WG allowed pubs and gyms to open with absolutely no guidance as to how to socially distance. Who is to blame for that?
Cases will increase as we open society, that is inevitable, hospital admissions are at an all time low and so are deaths. I realise you seem to live in a state funded bubble of the Swansea Valley but the rest of society has to move on. Carefully. As I've said I think we've reached the maximum we can open, but at least businesses in England have had an extra month to earn some cash to tide them over if they have to close again.
That includes air bridges. They aren't just about tourism. Would you expect someone coming back from Christchurch in New Zealand (0 cases per 100000) to Caerphilly (30ish cases per 100000) to isolate for 14 days?
Wales has just imposed quarantine? What are you talking about? We have that power and I've never said we haven't.
Guess what? There are two airlines that fly to Portugal from Cardiff, ryanair and tui. Ryanair have now effectively been wiped out from Cardiff Airport. Europe's biggest airline have been prevented from flying a WG owned airport by the WG. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:51 - Sep 4 with 1497 views | exhmrc1 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:32 - Sep 4 by Scotia |
I'll keep this as succinct as possible.
The WG allowed pubs and gyms to open with absolutely no guidance as to how to socially distance. Who is to blame for that?
Cases will increase as we open society, that is inevitable, hospital admissions are at an all time low and so are deaths. I realise you seem to live in a state funded bubble of the Swansea Valley but the rest of society has to move on. Carefully. As I've said I think we've reached the maximum we can open, but at least businesses in England have had an extra month to earn some cash to tide them over if they have to close again.
That includes air bridges. They aren't just about tourism. Would you expect someone coming back from Christchurch in New Zealand (0 cases per 100000) to Caerphilly (30ish cases per 100000) to isolate for 14 days?
Wales has just imposed quarantine? What are you talking about? We have that power and I've never said we haven't.
Guess what? There are two airlines that fly to Portugal from Cardiff, ryanair and tui. Ryanair have now effectively been wiped out from Cardiff Airport. Europe's biggest airline have been prevented from flying a WG owned airport by the WG. |
We dont have the right to impose quarantine and you said this previously. Quarantine actually involves putting ALL incomers in a secure environment just like happened in the place in the Wirral early on. We dont have those powers. That is Border Force and they are answerable to the UK government not the Senydd. We are responsible for health matters and are able to tell people to self isolate ie in their own homes not locked up in some establishment. We can do that wherever in the UK they arrive if they return to Wales.
For weeks prior to pubs and gyms reopening you had been complaining about them still being closed and disputed they would create problems yet the other day you stated about the problems you found when you took your father to his club. What happened there is typical of many pubs. That was always going to happen as I told you.
Since the Air Bridges have been brought in 16 countries have been removed including France and Spain. Hardly consistent is it. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 22:16 - Sep 4 with 1492 views | Scotia |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:51 - Sep 4 by exhmrc1 |
We dont have the right to impose quarantine and you said this previously. Quarantine actually involves putting ALL incomers in a secure environment just like happened in the place in the Wirral early on. We dont have those powers. That is Border Force and they are answerable to the UK government not the Senydd. We are responsible for health matters and are able to tell people to self isolate ie in their own homes not locked up in some establishment. We can do that wherever in the UK they arrive if they return to Wales.
For weeks prior to pubs and gyms reopening you had been complaining about them still being closed and disputed they would create problems yet the other day you stated about the problems you found when you took your father to his club. What happened there is typical of many pubs. That was always going to happen as I told you.
Since the Air Bridges have been brought in 16 countries have been removed including France and Spain. Hardly consistent is it. |
That first paragraph sounds like you are arguing with yourself.
There are problems with opening pubs and gyms partly because there has been no guidance as to how to open safely from the WG despite them having an extra month to produce it. That extra month could also have been used to come up with an enforcement plan.
I don't think you understand air bridges. Do you understand the Christchurch / Caerphilly scenario? | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 22:56 - Sep 4 with 1480 views | exhmrc1 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 22:16 - Sep 4 by Scotia |
That first paragraph sounds like you are arguing with yourself.
There are problems with opening pubs and gyms partly because there has been no guidance as to how to open safely from the WG despite them having an extra month to produce it. That extra month could also have been used to come up with an enforcement plan.
I don't think you understand air bridges. Do you understand the Christchurch / Caerphilly scenario? |
Yes I totally understand the Christchurch/Caerphilly scenario but many of the countries on the list were taken off no sooner than they were put on. Serbia was removed on 11 July Spain on 26 July. Portugal is being added on when it is at the rate it should be taken off.
The fact is people travelling to many of these destinations have come back infected both in Wales and England. In some cases they have come home, visited pubs and spread it further.
New Zealand has had its first death for 3 months.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/04/new-zealand-records-first-covid-19-d
Whilst on New Zealand they are an island state like the UK who closed their borders early. They have had very few deaths. I think it was 34 compared to the UK which has from 40,000 to over 60,000 depending on the figures you take. An excellent example of what closing borders does, [Post edited 4 Sep 2020 22:58]
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 23:13 - Sep 4 with 1466 views | Scotia |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 22:56 - Sep 4 by exhmrc1 |
Yes I totally understand the Christchurch/Caerphilly scenario but many of the countries on the list were taken off no sooner than they were put on. Serbia was removed on 11 July Spain on 26 July. Portugal is being added on when it is at the rate it should be taken off.
The fact is people travelling to many of these destinations have come back infected both in Wales and England. In some cases they have come home, visited pubs and spread it further.
New Zealand has had its first death for 3 months.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/04/new-zealand-records-first-covid-19-d
Whilst on New Zealand they are an island state like the UK who closed their borders early. They have had very few deaths. I think it was 34 compared to the UK which has from 40,000 to over 60,000 depending on the figures you take. An excellent example of what closing borders does, [Post edited 4 Sep 2020 22:58]
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Are you seriously comparing the UK to New Zealand? It is pretty clear that any type of geography isn't your strongest point, but that is just bonkers.
What is the problem with removing countries from air bridges, would you rather they weren't? Personally I think that is how they should work.
People from Caerphilly could travel to Pembrokeshire and infect people in that area. I note that Drakeford hasn't reimposed his 5 mile limit in that area despite cases being way in excess of when the restrictions were in place. Do you think that is sensible?
I hate to say it but yet again it's either a case of "I'm alright Jack", you maybe OK being funded (at least in part) by the state but the rest of the country has to work. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 07:29 - Sep 5 with 1438 views | exhmrc1 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 23:13 - Sep 4 by Scotia |
Are you seriously comparing the UK to New Zealand? It is pretty clear that any type of geography isn't your strongest point, but that is just bonkers.
What is the problem with removing countries from air bridges, would you rather they weren't? Personally I think that is how they should work.
People from Caerphilly could travel to Pembrokeshire and infect people in that area. I note that Drakeford hasn't reimposed his 5 mile limit in that area despite cases being way in excess of when the restrictions were in place. Do you think that is sensible?
I hate to say it but yet again it's either a case of "I'm alright Jack", you maybe OK being funded (at least in part) by the state but the rest of the country has to work. |
Yes both are island states. New Zealand is a fine example of how closing borders has led to very few deaths. Had the UK acted in the same way we would have not have had anything like the numbers we have had. Indeed Barry Ferguson an expert in this area believes imposing a lockdown a week earlier would have prevented 1/2 the deaths we had but then clearly you think you have more knowledge than him.
The whole Air Bridges thing is a problem. People go abroad and at the time think they will be able to come back without quarantine only to find the rules have changed. 16 countries have been removed by the UK government including many in Europe like France, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands. The only reason Portugal has been left on the list is because of the embarrassment it is causing to the government.
They have been criticised this week for their 12 U turns. Can you imagine what would have happened had they changed their minds and taken Portugal off on the day they were meant to go on. For this reason they chose to ignore the scientific evidence whilst the devolved governments have followed it.
As far as Caerphilly is concerned it seems you are oblivious to what has actually happened in Wales. Wrexham has been far higher than Caerphilly and local restrictions on travel werent imposed there. Wrexham which one time had the highest rate in the UK now has a 3rd of the average UK arent and is below the Welsh average. Success from Drakeford and doubtless Caerphilly will get sorted too. Caerphilly is still nowhere near the rates of many places in England. Oh and by the way who has the lowest R rate in the UK.
It seems to have escaped your attention that the uk cases were higher yesterday than any day since 30 May and are nearly double a few weeks ago when you claimed things were under control. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 07:49 - Sep 5 with 1433 views | Scotia |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 07:29 - Sep 5 by exhmrc1 |
Yes both are island states. New Zealand is a fine example of how closing borders has led to very few deaths. Had the UK acted in the same way we would have not have had anything like the numbers we have had. Indeed Barry Ferguson an expert in this area believes imposing a lockdown a week earlier would have prevented 1/2 the deaths we had but then clearly you think you have more knowledge than him.
The whole Air Bridges thing is a problem. People go abroad and at the time think they will be able to come back without quarantine only to find the rules have changed. 16 countries have been removed by the UK government including many in Europe like France, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands. The only reason Portugal has been left on the list is because of the embarrassment it is causing to the government.
They have been criticised this week for their 12 U turns. Can you imagine what would have happened had they changed their minds and taken Portugal off on the day they were meant to go on. For this reason they chose to ignore the scientific evidence whilst the devolved governments have followed it.
As far as Caerphilly is concerned it seems you are oblivious to what has actually happened in Wales. Wrexham has been far higher than Caerphilly and local restrictions on travel werent imposed there. Wrexham which one time had the highest rate in the UK now has a 3rd of the average UK arent and is below the Welsh average. Success from Drakeford and doubtless Caerphilly will get sorted too. Caerphilly is still nowhere near the rates of many places in England. Oh and by the way who has the lowest R rate in the UK.
It seems to have escaped your attention that the uk cases were higher yesterday than any day since 30 May and are nearly double a few weeks ago when you claimed things were under control. |
How far is New Zealand from its nearest neighbour? | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 08:51 - Sep 5 with 1430 views | exhmrc1 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 07:49 - Sep 5 by Scotia |
How far is New Zealand from its nearest neighbour? |
That really doesnt matter. They closed their border which we didnt. The fact is our early cases came in from Northern Italy and it spread from there. People coming back from skiing holidays. 23 deaths in a country of 5 million with a huge city of 1.5 million bigger than any UK city other than London. In fact bigger than Leeds and Manchester combined. How many deaths have there been in those 2 or Birmingham or Sheffield. Look at how many deaths in Wales with a far smaller population than New Zealand and whose biggest city is a quarter the size of Auckland. Swansea Bay health board alone has nearly 10 times the number of deaths of New Zealand and has one of the lowest rates of death and covers 1/10 the population. The fact is they got it right by closing borders. We got it wrong by keeping them open and using air bridges where infected people come back giving it to others. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:05 - Sep 5 with 1425 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 08:51 - Sep 5 by exhmrc1 |
That really doesnt matter. They closed their border which we didnt. The fact is our early cases came in from Northern Italy and it spread from there. People coming back from skiing holidays. 23 deaths in a country of 5 million with a huge city of 1.5 million bigger than any UK city other than London. In fact bigger than Leeds and Manchester combined. How many deaths have there been in those 2 or Birmingham or Sheffield. Look at how many deaths in Wales with a far smaller population than New Zealand and whose biggest city is a quarter the size of Auckland. Swansea Bay health board alone has nearly 10 times the number of deaths of New Zealand and has one of the lowest rates of death and covers 1/10 the population. The fact is they got it right by closing borders. We got it wrong by keeping them open and using air bridges where infected people come back giving it to others. |
The Johnson government of clowns got it badly wrong.
Only question is .... was it stupidity led ? Or was it ‘herd immunity’ led ?
If its the latter then its jail time for Johnson, 40,000 to 60,000 deaths.
If its the former Johnson must resign.
Nothing good in any of this. [Post edited 5 Sep 2020 9:06]
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| Beware of the Risen People
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:36 - Sep 5 with 1420 views | Scotia |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 08:51 - Sep 5 by exhmrc1 |
That really doesnt matter. They closed their border which we didnt. The fact is our early cases came in from Northern Italy and it spread from there. People coming back from skiing holidays. 23 deaths in a country of 5 million with a huge city of 1.5 million bigger than any UK city other than London. In fact bigger than Leeds and Manchester combined. How many deaths have there been in those 2 or Birmingham or Sheffield. Look at how many deaths in Wales with a far smaller population than New Zealand and whose biggest city is a quarter the size of Auckland. Swansea Bay health board alone has nearly 10 times the number of deaths of New Zealand and has one of the lowest rates of death and covers 1/10 the population. The fact is they got it right by closing borders. We got it wrong by keeping them open and using air bridges where infected people come back giving it to others. |
I'm sorry you really are deluded, of course it matters. If you're even attempting a comparison it's farcical. The UK is 20 miles from France and driving distance from virus hot spots at the time. NZ is 2500 miles from Australia where there were very few cases.
How many Kiwis do you think were skiing in Italy or visiting Spain?
Do you really think we could have shut our borders since March? Madness. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:32 - Sep 5 with 1409 views | Catullus |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:51 - Sep 4 by exhmrc1 |
We dont have the right to impose quarantine and you said this previously. Quarantine actually involves putting ALL incomers in a secure environment just like happened in the place in the Wirral early on. We dont have those powers. That is Border Force and they are answerable to the UK government not the Senydd. We are responsible for health matters and are able to tell people to self isolate ie in their own homes not locked up in some establishment. We can do that wherever in the UK they arrive if they return to Wales.
For weeks prior to pubs and gyms reopening you had been complaining about them still being closed and disputed they would create problems yet the other day you stated about the problems you found when you took your father to his club. What happened there is typical of many pubs. That was always going to happen as I told you.
Since the Air Bridges have been brought in 16 countries have been removed including France and Spain. Hardly consistent is it. |
We have imposed quarantine though, we have told all people coming back from certain areas they must self isolate/quarantine for 14 days. England hasn't done this, the Weslh Parliament has though.
You choose to say quarantine means ALL incomers but it doesn't. Wales has this power (as Scotia says) under public health rules.
https://gov.wales/coronavirus-legislation-and-guidance-law
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-08/coronavirus-control-p
Wales does have the powers. [Post edited 5 Sep 2020 10:39]
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:42 - Sep 5 with 1396 views | exhmrc1 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:36 - Sep 5 by Scotia |
I'm sorry you really are deluded, of course it matters. If you're even attempting a comparison it's farcical. The UK is 20 miles from France and driving distance from virus hot spots at the time. NZ is 2500 miles from Australia where there were very few cases.
How many Kiwis do you think were skiing in Italy or visiting Spain?
Do you really think we could have shut our borders since March? Madness. |
It isnt just New Zealand although having an equivalent rate of deaths of 300 to 40000 perhaps it highlights it more. Take Germany a country with a bigger population than the UK with under a quarter of its deaths as against 40000 and a population nearly 1 and a half times that of the UK. Guess what they imposed the same kind of border controls as New Zealand are closer to France, Spain and Italy than we are and dont have the advantage of being an island state with nowhere within 20 miles.
Allowing people to come here from areas which have higher infection rates leads to more cases here. Zante double the Welsh average and Portugal 3 times. There have been 30 cases found to have come here with infections from Zante. How many would there be from Portugal. That is just for Wales. What about all the cases in England. From 11 August to 13 August for 3 days there were 36 new cases ie the weeks worth coming back from Zante was almost the same amount as 3 days in Wales without them. It will be the same in England. There were 30 cases in Plymouth alone and there were reported cases from Crete in England as well
These infections are the tip of the iceberg. They will then spread to others. No wonder the UK figures yesterday were the highest since 30 May.
Singapore another island state has 27 deaths equivalent per size of population to 400 here and a massive city state with over 5 million on its tiny island and not surprisingly has loads of South Asians there. [Post edited 5 Sep 2020 13:45]
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:05 - Sep 5 with 1388 views | exhmrc1 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:42 - Sep 5 by exhmrc1 |
It isnt just New Zealand although having an equivalent rate of deaths of 300 to 40000 perhaps it highlights it more. Take Germany a country with a bigger population than the UK with under a quarter of its deaths as against 40000 and a population nearly 1 and a half times that of the UK. Guess what they imposed the same kind of border controls as New Zealand are closer to France, Spain and Italy than we are and dont have the advantage of being an island state with nowhere within 20 miles.
Allowing people to come here from areas which have higher infection rates leads to more cases here. Zante double the Welsh average and Portugal 3 times. There have been 30 cases found to have come here with infections from Zante. How many would there be from Portugal. That is just for Wales. What about all the cases in England. From 11 August to 13 August for 3 days there were 36 new cases ie the weeks worth coming back from Zante was almost the same amount as 3 days in Wales without them. It will be the same in England. There were 30 cases in Plymouth alone and there were reported cases from Crete in England as well
These infections are the tip of the iceberg. They will then spread to others. No wonder the UK figures yesterday were the highest since 30 May.
Singapore another island state has 27 deaths equivalent per size of population to 400 here and a massive city state with over 5 million on its tiny island and not surprisingly has loads of South Asians there. [Post edited 5 Sep 2020 13:45]
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If you still think allowing loads of infected people coming in through Air Bridges is a good idea look at the Welsh figures today. The 1st death for 4 days and 77 New cases compared to the low of 8 on 12 August. This is largely due to Air Bridges and the opening of pubs and shows how these policies you crave are working. [Post edited 5 Sep 2020 14:09]
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:57 - Sep 6 with 1347 views | exhmrc1 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:05 - Sep 5 by exhmrc1 |
If you still think allowing loads of infected people coming in through Air Bridges is a good idea look at the Welsh figures today. The 1st death for 4 days and 77 New cases compared to the low of 8 on 12 August. This is largely due to Air Bridges and the opening of pubs and shows how these policies you crave are working. [Post edited 5 Sep 2020 14:09]
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Another country that has imposed a ban of travellers entering the country and it has worked for
Malaysia, which has reported just 9,374 COVID-19 cases and 128 deaths as of Thursday, has banned tourists and business traveler from entering the country since March, when it imposed strict curbs on movement and commerce to contain the spread.
Roughly half our population so under 300 deaths as against the UKs death total of over 40000.
Are all these countries wrong yet have largely restricted entry. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:12 - Sep 6 with 1336 views | Scotia |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:05 - Sep 5 by exhmrc1 |
If you still think allowing loads of infected people coming in through Air Bridges is a good idea look at the Welsh figures today. The 1st death for 4 days and 77 New cases compared to the low of 8 on 12 August. This is largely due to Air Bridges and the opening of pubs and shows how these policies you crave are working. [Post edited 5 Sep 2020 14:09]
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It is not just a free for all though is it? Anyone from an area at risk has to isolate for 14 days. The vast majority of people recently coming back from holiday with the virus will have contracted it from fellow brits in bars abroad. These could easily have been caught on a bowls tour to Yorkshire, there is enough virus in circulation here.
International connections are absolutely essential for our economy, we are a centre of major international business, far more so than Malaysia or NZ. Our economy needs to recover because we are in the biggest recession in history. We cannot afford to put business on hold from safe areas without justification, should we make a businessman from Berlin isolate when infections there are no higher than here?
Similarly with other areas of business. I realise you may be immune from the economic effects, I am myself to a certain extent, but most people aren't. Stop being selfish. Furlough ends this month people have to earn money or the implications on deaths are worse than covid.
Of course infections will increase, we cannot eliminate the virus, I have always said they would. It is essential we control it as much as possible. This would be an ideal opportunity for Drakeford threaten enforcement. He could come out and threaten publicans licences - perhaps he should have made a public statement threatening the pubs on St Mary's Street? But he seems to have disappeared. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 15:07 - Sep 6 with 1331 views | exhmrc1 |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:12 - Sep 6 by Scotia |
It is not just a free for all though is it? Anyone from an area at risk has to isolate for 14 days. The vast majority of people recently coming back from holiday with the virus will have contracted it from fellow brits in bars abroad. These could easily have been caught on a bowls tour to Yorkshire, there is enough virus in circulation here.
International connections are absolutely essential for our economy, we are a centre of major international business, far more so than Malaysia or NZ. Our economy needs to recover because we are in the biggest recession in history. We cannot afford to put business on hold from safe areas without justification, should we make a businessman from Berlin isolate when infections there are no higher than here?
Similarly with other areas of business. I realise you may be immune from the economic effects, I am myself to a certain extent, but most people aren't. Stop being selfish. Furlough ends this month people have to earn money or the implications on deaths are worse than covid.
Of course infections will increase, we cannot eliminate the virus, I have always said they would. It is essential we control it as much as possible. This would be an ideal opportunity for Drakeford threaten enforcement. He could come out and threaten publicans licences - perhaps he should have made a public statement threatening the pubs on St Mary's Street? But he seems to have disappeared. |
Following your policies has led to an increase from 8 new cases a day to 98 today. That says it all about the success of the policies that you have been advocating and we havent factored in overseas student.
You say it isnt a free for all but from one place alone we had 30 cases in a week. How many of those have spread it to others and how many have they led to being infected.
It doesnt take a genius to see that countries who have closed their borders have had very few deaths and we have had so many. Even if places had far more cases they are significantly less per head of population than we have and that is without the 5000 Johnson's government removed.
I for one think we should learn the lessons from elsewhere. We owe it to 40-60000 that have died who would not have had we imposed controls from the start but you think all these deaths are worth it for business. That suns up the difference. I put life at the top. You like Johnson dont . Because of it many thousands have died who could have been saved. | | | |
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