| This alternative table garbage 19:55 - Sep 3 with 13826 views | bluenile |
Don't know if anyone else read that alternative table article? Apparently based on where they thought every team was expected to be, not where they actually are, after 6 games. And I couldn't bring myself to look at the bit about "Swansea, papering over the cracks?" . . . . . . . . Christ on a bike! |  |
| Open the ipod bay doors Hal |
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| This alternative table garbage on 22:39 - Sep 3 with 2129 views | thornabyswan |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:28 - Sep 3 by jasper_T |
"We're winning so if you don't love it you're a sad bstard and/or against the club"
Change the record lads. |
What don't you like.
Being top of the league
3rd round of the league cup
Winning at Leeds with a skillful gutsy display.
The club showing ambition to keep Baston and Ayew.
The bookies having us 4th favourites to win the league they were predicting a bottom half finish before the first game.
Come on Jasper you are on a different planet mate. |  |
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| This alternative table garbage on 22:40 - Sep 3 with 2129 views | jack247 |
I think it was Risca who put up a twitter link dissecting this type of analysis the other day. They were basically making the case that we were lucky to beat Birmingham. | | | |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:45 - Sep 3 with 2112 views | jasper_T |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:39 - Sep 3 by thornabyswan |
What don't you like.
Being top of the league
3rd round of the league cup
Winning at Leeds with a skillful gutsy display.
The club showing ambition to keep Baston and Ayew.
The bookies having us 4th favourites to win the league they were predicting a bottom half finish before the first game.
Come on Jasper you are on a different planet mate. |
Good
Good
Good
A bit worrying for our future financial health if we don't go up, "ambition" ruins football clubs, just look at Bury. Bought promotion from League Two and now look at them.
Fck bookmakers. Scum the lot of them.
Don't understand this happy-clapper, crusader mentality where people get dogpiled and called a tw@t for saying something slightly critical when we're winning, or even positive after we've lost a game. Football is a complex game, there's plenty more to talk about. | | | |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:52 - Sep 3 with 2090 views | Joe_bradshaw |
Statistics can be fascinating but often in football (such as possession) they contradict the really important ones.
The important ones are that we have scored more goals than any other team, only one team has conceded fewer and we have more points than any other team. |  |
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| This alternative table garbage on 22:55 - Sep 3 with 2069 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:45 - Sep 3 by jasper_T |
Good
Good
Good
A bit worrying for our future financial health if we don't go up, "ambition" ruins football clubs, just look at Bury. Bought promotion from League Two and now look at them.
Fck bookmakers. Scum the lot of them.
Don't understand this happy-clapper, crusader mentality where people get dogpiled and called a tw@t for saying something slightly critical when we're winning, or even positive after we've lost a game. Football is a complex game, there's plenty more to talk about. |
Wasn't it Bill Shankly who once said "football is a simple game over complicated by idiots"?
You and this alternative table bull seem to fit that description perfectly. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| This alternative table garbage on 22:57 - Sep 3 with 2069 views | thornabyswan |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:45 - Sep 3 by jasper_T |
Good
Good
Good
A bit worrying for our future financial health if we don't go up, "ambition" ruins football clubs, just look at Bury. Bought promotion from League Two and now look at them.
Fck bookmakers. Scum the lot of them.
Don't understand this happy-clapper, crusader mentality where people get dogpiled and called a tw@t for saying something slightly critical when we're winning, or even positive after we've lost a game. Football is a complex game, there's plenty more to talk about. |
I haven't called you a tw@t
As regards your ambition ruining clubs line.
How does that apply to us then we made 40 odd million profit from transfers last season and about the same this.
That's what enabled us to keep Borja and Ayew. | |
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| This alternative table garbage on 22:57 - Sep 3 with 2056 views | Garyjack |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:45 - Sep 3 by jasper_T |
Good
Good
Good
A bit worrying for our future financial health if we don't go up, "ambition" ruins football clubs, just look at Bury. Bought promotion from League Two and now look at them.
Fck bookmakers. Scum the lot of them.
Don't understand this happy-clapper, crusader mentality where people get dogpiled and called a tw@t for saying something slightly critical when we're winning, or even positive after we've lost a game. Football is a complex game, there's plenty more to talk about. |
"A bit worrying for our future financial health if we don't go up, "ambition" ruins football clubs, just look at Bury. Bought promotion from League Two and now look at them."
Birch has already stated that because of the sales of James and Mcburnie we can afford to keep the 'high earners'.
There's no happy clapping Jasper, it was just a shite desperate article. I'm surprised at you! Or am i?
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| This alternative table garbage on 22:59 - Sep 3 with 2038 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:57 - Sep 3 by Garyjack |
"A bit worrying for our future financial health if we don't go up, "ambition" ruins football clubs, just look at Bury. Bought promotion from League Two and now look at them."
Birch has already stated that because of the sales of James and Mcburnie we can afford to keep the 'high earners'.
There's no happy clapping Jasper, it was just a shite desperate article. I'm surprised at you! Or am i?
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Don't be. He's living in a parallel universe where success means failure. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| This alternative table garbage on 23:08 - Sep 3 with 2027 views | jasper_T |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:57 - Sep 3 by thornabyswan |
I haven't called you a tw@t
As regards your ambition ruining clubs line.
How does that apply to us then we made 40 odd million profit from transfers last season and about the same this.
That's what enabled us to keep Borja and Ayew. |
Profit on transfers but accounts losses. Last summer we borrowed against the first season of this season's parachute payment. We were scrambling for cash and "still have a substantial financial deficit to overcome following relegation" according to Trevor Birch which isn't going to get better with the parachute payments dropping as sharply as they do.
Promotion solves many problems but the long-term stability and sustainability of the club is vital. We don't want to have to sell £30m of players every year to stay solvent that's for sure. | | | |
| This alternative table garbage on 23:09 - Sep 3 with 2010 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| This alternative table garbage on 23:08 - Sep 3 by jasper_T |
Profit on transfers but accounts losses. Last summer we borrowed against the first season of this season's parachute payment. We were scrambling for cash and "still have a substantial financial deficit to overcome following relegation" according to Trevor Birch which isn't going to get better with the parachute payments dropping as sharply as they do.
Promotion solves many problems but the long-term stability and sustainability of the club is vital. We don't want to have to sell £30m of players every year to stay solvent that's for sure. |
If we get promoted this year we won't have to. | |
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| This alternative table garbage on 23:16 - Sep 3 with 2012 views | Uxbridge |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:24 - Sep 3 by jasper_T |
xG measures quality of chances. That's what it's intended to do. So if you say we've created better quality than the opposition but the numbers don't agree than you're seeing a problem with xG metric being used rather than a fundamental issue with xG as a concept. Which is a perfectly valid complaint of the clickbait article's table. There are dozens of different xG models in use, and people pay big money for new "better" ones all the time.
In my opinion we've not created nearly as many brilliant chances as we did when DJ was regularly beating his full-back at a sprint and setting up potential tap-ins. Naughton's goal wasn't easy. That Borja header off the Fulton flick was not easy. The winner against Leeds was a crowded penalty area and a scuffed shot dribbling in the bottom corner. You can see why those chances would rate low on an expected goals chart compared to the chance an unmarked Bamford headed six feet wide. |
I know. I'm saying the principle is flawed as only looks at very simplistic logic to determine.
Those three goals weren't easy ones. Which proves we have some quality. Many others were quality on the creation side. Which shows quality there. |  |
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| This alternative table garbage on 00:05 - Sep 4 with 1972 views | LeonWasGod |
| This alternative table garbage on 22:24 - Sep 3 by jasper_T |
xG measures quality of chances. That's what it's intended to do. So if you say we've created better quality than the opposition but the numbers don't agree than you're seeing a problem with xG metric being used rather than a fundamental issue with xG as a concept. Which is a perfectly valid complaint of the clickbait article's table. There are dozens of different xG models in use, and people pay big money for new "better" ones all the time.
In my opinion we've not created nearly as many brilliant chances as we did when DJ was regularly beating his full-back at a sprint and setting up potential tap-ins. Naughton's goal wasn't easy. That Borja header off the Fulton flick was not easy. The winner against Leeds was a crowded penalty area and a scuffed shot dribbling in the bottom corner. You can see why those chances would rate low on an expected goals chart compared to the chance an unmarked Bamford headed six feet wide. |
But we didn’t lose them, and that’s the difference between a predictive tool and reality. Our dismal failures with the American money-ball god probably hasn’t endeared many people towards an over-reliance on stats. They’re simply a tool, and meaningless in the wrong hands. |  | | |
| This alternative table garbage on 06:51 - Sep 4 with 1913 views | Dr_Winston |
Few people in British football have more experience of dealing with clubs in financial distress than Trevor Birch. It's why he got the job in the first place. That (thus far) he's also showing a dab hand in the general day to day business of club management in addition to crisis management is a bit of a Brucie Bonus.
I'm fairly sure that if he says we can afford to keep Baston and Ayew because of selling McBurnie and James then we can without too much to worry about. It was a conclusion a number of people had already drawn before he announced it anyway.
Back to the subject of stats, there are no doubt a number of very useful statistical measures that coaches look at as part of their planning. Likewise there is no doubt that a fair few absolute shite ones have also been invented by the statistical wonks with a vested interest in perpetuating the myth that "moneyball" can be applied to football, swallowed by the gullible.
xG being a prime example. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| This alternative table garbage on 08:13 - Sep 4 with 1863 views | EasternJack |
Goes to show you can’t put a metric behind team cohesion, heart and desire.
Literally the X factor
Jacks are going up ðŸ‘🻠|  |
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| This alternative table garbage on 08:33 - Sep 4 with 1836 views | ItchySphincter |
| This alternative table garbage on 06:51 - Sep 4 by Dr_Winston |
Few people in British football have more experience of dealing with clubs in financial distress than Trevor Birch. It's why he got the job in the first place. That (thus far) he's also showing a dab hand in the general day to day business of club management in addition to crisis management is a bit of a Brucie Bonus.
I'm fairly sure that if he says we can afford to keep Baston and Ayew because of selling McBurnie and James then we can without too much to worry about. It was a conclusion a number of people had already drawn before he announced it anyway.
Back to the subject of stats, there are no doubt a number of very useful statistical measures that coaches look at as part of their planning. Likewise there is no doubt that a fair few absolute shite ones have also been invented by the statistical wonks with a vested interest in perpetuating the myth that "moneyball" can be applied to football, swallowed by the gullible.
xG being a prime example. |
I think you’re right to an extent. It’s a calculated risk - the sales of McB and James ease the crippling wage problem in the short term but solve nothing in the longer term. Those saying it doesn’t matter ‘if’ we get promoted are also right but it doesn’t take in to account if we don’t. The view of the chairman must be that with the two players coming back in to the team with good fitness and attitudes it’s worth the gamble and worth kicking the can down the road a bit further.
‘If’ we are still in the championship next season he will have the same problem of crippling wages unless we have more ‘other’ talent to sell, or he has to try to move them on again. If either’s contract is ending then it makes the risk even lower in terms of future commitment to them but also lessens the possibility of clawing anything back either.
I think there has to be an element of chance and since we couldn’t sell either of the high earners and had to sell others instead the owners and chairman have given us the best possible chance of fighting it out at the sharp end. |  |
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| This alternative table garbage on 08:42 - Sep 4 with 1829 views | felixstowe_jack |
Total nonsense chart. If a team had the best .midfield in the division but the worse two forwards, who could not hit a barn door, they would create the most chances but score very few goals. A team with only an average midfield but the two best goal scorers would create few chances but would convert a high percentage into goals.
The only stats that count are highest goals scored, least goals conceded and TOTAL POINTS. | |
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| This alternative table garbage on 09:17 - Sep 4 with 1805 views | AlfieMooresSon |
It's good it shows how unpredictable the league is and how from now on we should ignore the press.
Brentford and Derby are shit, we are amazing and have surprised everyone, Charlton doing well, and Cardiff mid table as expected  | | | |
| This alternative table garbage on 09:22 - Sep 4 with 1801 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| This alternative table garbage on 21:39 - Sep 3 by jasper_T |
Typical responses from the anti-stats brigade.
Anyone who's watched our games knows we could easily have lost many of them. Our position in that table relative to the real one simply reflects that element of fortune and quality of finishing in our results so far. It's quantifying something that's should be obvious and observable to all of us.
Other teams are producing more chances and conceding fewer than us. That's an area for concern for Cooper going forward. Hopefully we can improve, create more and better opportunities, and sharpen up defending from open play back to last season's standards (when we under-performed relative to xG due to a terrible shot-stopping goalkeeper and lack of reliable finishers other than Oli).
But we're only 6 games in. Like the actual table you can't read too much into it yet. Wait until 10-12 games have been played. |
Can't argue with too much, other than brushing over the quality of finishing, that's why we are where we are, thats like saying if Liverpool didn't have top Strikers they wouldn't be top of the league! | | | |
| This alternative table garbage on 09:51 - Sep 4 with 1777 views | perchrockjack |
Better to have a media haters league. We d be perennial champions. Talk sport detest the smaller clubs as they are seen as having little national interest vis a vis listening stats.
It is why Leeds is so loved.Big city etc.
To be fair,Bournemouth s remarkable transition is also under represented .
I d say somebody soon is going to take a real pasting | |
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| This alternative table garbage on 10:01 - Sep 4 with 1755 views | Dr_Winston |
| This alternative table garbage on 08:33 - Sep 4 by ItchySphincter |
I think you’re right to an extent. It’s a calculated risk - the sales of McB and James ease the crippling wage problem in the short term but solve nothing in the longer term. Those saying it doesn’t matter ‘if’ we get promoted are also right but it doesn’t take in to account if we don’t. The view of the chairman must be that with the two players coming back in to the team with good fitness and attitudes it’s worth the gamble and worth kicking the can down the road a bit further.
‘If’ we are still in the championship next season he will have the same problem of crippling wages unless we have more ‘other’ talent to sell, or he has to try to move them on again. If either’s contract is ending then it makes the risk even lower in terms of future commitment to them but also lessens the possibility of clawing anything back either.
I think there has to be an element of chance and since we couldn’t sell either of the high earners and had to sell others instead the owners and chairman have given us the best possible chance of fighting it out at the sharp end. |
If we're still in this division next season both will be gone. They'll have to be. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| This alternative table garbage on 10:24 - Sep 4 with 1745 views | Professor |
Any statistical analysis or (in the case of xG) predictive mathematical model is only as good as the data you analyse. Football, like a complex biological system, has many variables and confounders which lead to a relatively weak model (its not just us but the Wurzels who are a long way out). A confounder is that Bamford could not hit a bovine rectum with a stringed instrument.
My modelling colleague up in Newcastle always want as much reliable data, preferably longitudinal, as possible to allow decent analysis. This has worked for lab/experimental infection work where we control the vast majority of factors, but was just noise from chicken farms as there were too many variables.
Remember all models are wrong, but some are useful. [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 11:47]
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| This alternative table garbage on 11:08 - Sep 4 with 1721 views | NotLoyal |
It's those total and utter cünts from talk sport, one eyed English radio station serving the south east with a anglasised Scottish garbage on the side. |  |
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| This alternative table garbage on 11:11 - Sep 4 with 1716 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| This alternative table garbage on 09:22 - Sep 4 by AlfieMooresSon |
Can't argue with too much, other than brushing over the quality of finishing, that's why we are where we are, thats like saying if Liverpool didn't have top Strikers they wouldn't be top of the league! |
A fairly easy and logical point . Some can grasp this, others can’t. | |
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| This alternative table garbage on 11:16 - Sep 4 with 1713 views | Swanjaxs |
The same crap radio station that still employs a presenter who once called the Swans "The turd of the Premier league" ... all that matters is the next six games and let Talkshyt carry on employing alcoholics and gambling addicts [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 11:24]
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| This alternative table garbage on 12:09 - Sep 4 with 1677 views | Captain_Sham |
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