| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! 20:27 - Feb 27 with 17639 views | NDGN82 |
Not sure if they’ve been late before or if there are penalties from the EFL for late submission but either way it wouldn’t look good if they were late. Here’s hoping the club have it in hand |  | | |  |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 10:06 - Mar 9 with 2872 views | fitzochris |
It shows how important growing self-generated income is. Almost half our income came from broadcast money during the last financial year.
I’m sure there will be plans in place to further exploit the fact we own our own stadium now, while looking at other revenue streams than cup runs and player sales. |  |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:20 - Mar 9 with 2712 views | JimmyRustler |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 10:06 - Mar 9 by fitzochris |
It shows how important growing self-generated income is. Almost half our income came from broadcast money during the last financial year.
I’m sure there will be plans in place to further exploit the fact we own our own stadium now, while looking at other revenue streams than cup runs and player sales. |
Kel v Ninco v Wizard would be a full house if we can blag a wrestling ring of some sort. Better than an Olly Murs tribute act anyway |  | | |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:23 - Mar 9 with 2705 views | judd |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:20 - Mar 9 by JimmyRustler |
Kel v Ninco v Wizard would be a full house if we can blag a wrestling ring of some sort. Better than an Olly Murs tribute act anyway |
I'll sort the carriages |  |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:27 - Mar 9 with 2688 views | kel |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:23 - Mar 9 by judd |
I'll sort the carriages |
They’ll need a fookin HEARSE. |  | | |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:29 - Mar 9 with 2676 views | D_Alien |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 10:06 - Mar 9 by fitzochris |
It shows how important growing self-generated income is. Almost half our income came from broadcast money during the last financial year.
I’m sure there will be plans in place to further exploit the fact we own our own stadium now, while looking at other revenue streams than cup runs and player sales. |
I'm sure you're right...
The previous financial model had become unsustainable. It remains to be seen whether any proposed model presents risks as well as opportunities |  |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:29 - Mar 9 with 2675 views | Bobbyjoe |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 10:06 - Mar 9 by fitzochris |
It shows how important growing self-generated income is. Almost half our income came from broadcast money during the last financial year.
I’m sure there will be plans in place to further exploit the fact we own our own stadium now, while looking at other revenue streams than cup runs and player sales. |
Doesn't it rather demonstrate the contrary, and go some way to explaining the club's perceived indifference to fans. Windfalls from broadcasting/player sales fall into the club's lap, whereas getting more bums on seats is notoriously difficult and (it must seem) frankly, not worth the effort. | | | |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:32 - Mar 9 with 2670 views | kel |
I know balls all about finance/accounts and stuff but why is bar and catering income down from the previous year when the Ratcliffe was acquired? Happy to be corrected (for once). | | | |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:37 - Mar 9 with 2640 views | JimmyRustler |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:32 - Mar 9 by kel |
I know balls all about finance/accounts and stuff but why is bar and catering income down from the previous year when the Ratcliffe was acquired? Happy to be corrected (for once). |
The shift from sauce dispensers to sachets will explain that one | | | |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:03 - Mar 9 with 2542 views | fitzochris |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:29 - Mar 9 by Bobbyjoe |
Doesn't it rather demonstrate the contrary, and go some way to explaining the club's perceived indifference to fans. Windfalls from broadcasting/player sales fall into the club's lap, whereas getting more bums on seats is notoriously difficult and (it must seem) frankly, not worth the effort. |
But it is worth the effort as, while some of the broadcast money will always be guaranteed, that which is generated from Cup runs etc, is not.
And self-generated income should not be exclusively about attracting more fans. We now own the stadium and we’re told that opened up a whole host of other revenue streams.
It’s time for those to be tapped into.
Interested to see how we progress from here. | |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:15 - Mar 9 with 2488 views | SuddenLad |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:03 - Mar 9 by fitzochris |
But it is worth the effort as, while some of the broadcast money will always be guaranteed, that which is generated from Cup runs etc, is not.
And self-generated income should not be exclusively about attracting more fans. We now own the stadium and we’re told that opened up a whole host of other revenue streams.
It’s time for those to be tapped into.
Interested to see how we progress from here. |
However, that should never, ever mean that we use the ground as security against loans. We've been down that road and it was a disaster. Look down th A58 for another example of that. Laughing stock.
In fact, legal steps should be taken to ensure that it can never happen. Hopefully, that can be arranged so that we can all breathe easy and not have to endanger our future. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:16 - Mar 9 with 2487 views | judd |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:32 - Mar 9 by kel |
I know balls all about finance/accounts and stuff but why is bar and catering income down from the previous year when the Ratcliffe was acquired? Happy to be corrected (for once). |
It'll be because less was sold.
Plus don't most fans now use the Town Hall? | |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:17 - Mar 9 with 2484 views | fitzochris |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:15 - Mar 9 by SuddenLad |
However, that should never, ever mean that we use the ground as security against loans. We've been down that road and it was a disaster. Look down th A58 for another example of that. Laughing stock.
In fact, legal steps should be taken to ensure that it can never happen. Hopefully, that can be arranged so that we can all breathe easy and not have to endanger our future. |
Using the ground as security was never one of the potential revenue streams, I’m sure. | |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:17 - Mar 9 with 2480 views | 1907 |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:03 - Mar 9 by fitzochris |
But it is worth the effort as, while some of the broadcast money will always be guaranteed, that which is generated from Cup runs etc, is not.
And self-generated income should not be exclusively about attracting more fans. We now own the stadium and we’re told that opened up a whole host of other revenue streams.
It’s time for those to be tapped into.
Interested to see how we progress from here. |
On page 16, cash generated from operations £738,376 previous year (£48,460) is that something along those lines? | | | |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:21 - Mar 9 with 2470 views | fitzochris |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:17 - Mar 9 by 1907 |
On page 16, cash generated from operations £738,376 previous year (£48,460) is that something along those lines? |
Hard to tell without a comprehensive breakdown. Operations cover a myriad of streams.
Looking at the overall breakdown of where our income is generated, however, and the initial point still stands. We don’t want to be forever reliant on selling players as a sole way of maintaining a manageable loss. | |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:27 - Mar 9 with 2450 views | SuddenLad |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:17 - Mar 9 by fitzochris |
Using the ground as security was never one of the potential revenue streams, I’m sure. |
I'm very pleased to hear it. I'm not suggesting for one minute that it was, but there are plenty of examples of disasters where that option has been tried. You hope, as a fan, that we've moved on from situations like that. Formalising it, just makes sense. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:31 - Mar 9 with 2430 views | YouTubeDale |
The gate receipts went up over £70k and going over the £million mark for the first time in the club’s history.
I know we had the Tottenham game at home but generally we are going in the right direction. However, it is obvious if we go down a division then we will take a hit. |  |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:39 - Mar 9 with 2402 views | YouTubeDale |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:17 - Mar 9 by 1907 |
On page 16, cash generated from operations £738,376 previous year (£48,460) is that something along those lines? |
The £738k cash income means that the player sales from the previous year were realised ie that cash from these sales eventually came into the business and hence the bank balance went over a million. | |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:48 - Mar 9 with 2361 views | oddjob007 |
Take a step back from the detail lads, yes everything is going in the right direction, but there is still an underlying operating loss of a million quid a year.
Without a season of player sales, sell on clauses or decent cup runs, we are in trouble.
New manager and new board, these are very uncertain times. | | | |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 13:10 - Mar 9 with 2300 views | YouTubeDale |
Once we know which division we are playing in next season then a budget will be drawn up. If we carry on doing it the Rochdale way we should broadly follow that budget and keep financially sound. Therefore, off the field we should be ok. We need to get on the field matters flourishing.
I agree though, the big part of the equation is selling our players and we need to get that right. It must be very difficult to put a figure in the budget for this. | |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 13:11 - Mar 9 with 2300 views | electricblue |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 12:03 - Mar 9 by fitzochris |
But it is worth the effort as, while some of the broadcast money will always be guaranteed, that which is generated from Cup runs etc, is not.
And self-generated income should not be exclusively about attracting more fans. We now own the stadium and we’re told that opened up a whole host of other revenue streams.
It’s time for those to be tapped into.
Interested to see how we progress from here. |
Are there staff at the club with experience who know how to tap into these host of revenue streams... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 13:35 - Mar 9 with 2249 views | oddjob007 |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 13:11 - Mar 9 by electricblue |
Are there staff at the club with experience who know how to tap into these host of revenue streams... |
I don’t think you need experience. There’s an asset sat there that needs utilising outside of matchday, it’s not rocket science. | | | |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 13:42 - Mar 9 with 2220 views | 49thseason |
As has been alluded to many times and is now confirmed by the accounts, it is almost impossible to be consistently competitive in L1 without an average gate of 5 -6000. The size of the gate affects most of the other income streams, bar income, food sales, shirts, sponsorship, programme advertising, ground advertising etc.
Spending nearly 70% of all income on wages means that there simply isnt money available for other developments so a new pitch or bars refurbishment become unaffordable. If we cut wages we lose competitivity and drop back into L2, if we dont cut wages we go bust eventually or we have to sell talented kids before we have had the benefit of their skills, for sums lower than they are worth.
As KH said two years ago unless someone is prepared to come into the club ready to pump in a couple of millions a year we will struggle. No one did, and we are. |  | | |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 10:06 - Mar 10 with 1943 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 13:42 - Mar 9 by 49thseason |
As has been alluded to many times and is now confirmed by the accounts, it is almost impossible to be consistently competitive in L1 without an average gate of 5 -6000. The size of the gate affects most of the other income streams, bar income, food sales, shirts, sponsorship, programme advertising, ground advertising etc.
Spending nearly 70% of all income on wages means that there simply isnt money available for other developments so a new pitch or bars refurbishment become unaffordable. If we cut wages we lose competitivity and drop back into L2, if we dont cut wages we go bust eventually or we have to sell talented kids before we have had the benefit of their skills, for sums lower than they are worth.
As KH said two years ago unless someone is prepared to come into the club ready to pump in a couple of millions a year we will struggle. No one did, and we are. |
I think the gate receipt point can get over promoted as to its importance.
Doubling the attendance from 3,000 to 6,000 would only put an extra £1.5m in the pot and the likelihood of achieving 3,000 extra per game is minimal.
We need about £5.5m of revenue each season to compete in League 1.
In 2017-18 our top three revenue streams that generated £5.5m came from being in League 1 (£1.5m), gate receipts (£1.0m), transfer fees (£0.5m) with a healthy chunk of broadcasting money (£0.5m) that came out of the FA Cup run.
In 2016-17 our top five revenue streams that generated £6.0m came from transfer fees (£2.1m), being in League 1 (£1.5m), gate receipts (£0.9m). There was a cup run but not as lucrative as Tottenham.
With more games to generate gate receipts revenue (including two vs Tottenham) in 2017-18 you could argue that the gate receipts on a like for like basis are down, mainly due to the cost of the season tickets being down.
What it does demonstrate is to generate £5.5m this season (2018-19), we will have £1.0m of gate receipts, £1.5m from being in League 1 and £3.0m to find!
There's no FA Cup run, no broadcast money and no tangible player sales known, notwithstanding what we may have received for Rafferty and McGahey in January.
You can see why we have developed our academy model the way that we have. Effectively it's the financial lifeblood of the club and you'd expect Adshead and Morley to sold on in the next five years.
Still - a very positive end financially to the May 2018 season. A club and associated businesses worth £2.5m of which £1.1m of that was in cash.
And - each current ordinary share worth just over £10 based on those numbers. Andrew Kilpatrick's 110,000 shares gives a 45% (ish) holding in the club.
Very lucky to have the directors we have had (past and present) ensuring there is always a Rochdale Football Club.
Not the most lucrative of pastimes but good to see hope that there will always be a club in the town. |  |
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| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:41 - Mar 10 with 1848 views | Sandyman |
It was stated at the January director's forum that Andrew Kilpatrick held 23% of the shares in the club. Can I ask how do you work out that shares are worth £10 each? I'll be selling mine if they are!! |  | | |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 16:43 - Mar 10 with 1752 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Audited Accounts Due Tomorrow!! on 11:41 - Mar 10 by Sandyman |
It was stated at the January director's forum that Andrew Kilpatrick held 23% of the shares in the club. Can I ask how do you work out that shares are worth £10 each? I'll be selling mine if they are!! |
Hi Sandyman,
I'm taking my data from the publicly available filings on the club.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00111019/filing-history
On 22nd June 2018, the club filed a Confirmation Statement which names 333 different shareholders and disclose their shareholdings.
Shareholding 183 is Andrew Kilpatrick for 110,000 shares.
On 7th March 2019, Companies House shows accounts that were at 31 May 2018, 22 days before the confirmation statement.
Those accounts show that there are 244,029 ordinary shares in Note 19 (Page 27)
In percentage terms, that's my 45% that Andrew Kilpatrick holds - 45.07% being 110,000 of 244,029.
I'm not sure how you get to 23% unless the disclosure of Shareholder 183 is actually him and his wife - which would divide 45% by 2 - 22.5% each.
In that case though, the disclosure is wrong. There appear to be plenty of husband/wife combinations on that confirmation statement.
To get to the value of the club:
Shareholders funds is £2,573,402 (Page 11 of the PDF)
Number of shares is 244,029
Value per share is £10.55 (being £2,573,402 divided by 244,029 shares)
That valuation is at 31st May 2018 and things have moved since but the accounts don't include a valuation for Danny Adshead or the cost of exiting Keith Hill and Chris Beech as well as the trading performance for this season to date.
Hope that makes sense. I'm not sure there is a ready market for buying your shares off you mind! | |
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