| Ashes Thread 19:48 - Nov 15 with 47754 views | BlackCrowe |
If we survive the 1st test, i think we might just sneak it. If we lose it, it'll probably be carnage.
Going to days 1-3 of Sydney. Anyone else there? |  |
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| Ashes Thread on 06:44 - Nov 23 with 2603 views | MrSheen |
| Ashes Thread on 06:41 - Nov 23 by MrSheen |
Did I read on here once that Vince was a Ranger? Jinxed him now. |
Oh God. Sorry. |  | | |
| Ashes Thread on 09:02 - Nov 23 with 2553 views | MrSheen |
One day into the series and I'm already sick of the sound of Tim Paine on the stump mic. | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 09:14 - Nov 23 with 2538 views | whittocksRs |
Geniunely don't understand the fear about this Aussie team. Cummins and Starc are good bowlers with pace, fair enough, and Smith is a lovely cricketer and a smart captain. The rest are pish. Warner has always been overrated — wouldn't have even got into regional Aussie XI 15 years ago. Lyon has a decent throwing arm, as we saw today, but he is 1 6/10 spinner at best. Definitely no more consistent than Moeen. We have a better bowling attack and better all-rounders, even without Stokes. They have the Aussie pitches in their favour, and about nothing else.
We'll win 3-1. |  | | |
| Ashes Thread on 09:50 - Nov 23 with 2499 views | ElHoop |
| Ashes Thread on 09:14 - Nov 23 by whittocksRs |
Geniunely don't understand the fear about this Aussie team. Cummins and Starc are good bowlers with pace, fair enough, and Smith is a lovely cricketer and a smart captain. The rest are pish. Warner has always been overrated — wouldn't have even got into regional Aussie XI 15 years ago. Lyon has a decent throwing arm, as we saw today, but he is 1 6/10 spinner at best. Definitely no more consistent than Moeen. We have a better bowling attack and better all-rounders, even without Stokes. They have the Aussie pitches in their favour, and about nothing else.
We'll win 3-1. |
I don't think that the pitch is what everyone was expecting - doesn't seem to particularly favour the quicks - not today anyway. I would take 300 if they offered it to me now. I think that we can get them out for less than that if the pitch dries out a bit in the next couple of days. A good start for us for sure, and the supposed 'lesser lights' of the batting line up have kept us out of trouble. A good toss to win but until both sides have batted we don't really know where we are. |  | | |
| Ashes Thread on 09:57 - Nov 23 with 2494 views | ozexile |
| Ashes Thread on 09:50 - Nov 23 by ElHoop |
I don't think that the pitch is what everyone was expecting - doesn't seem to particularly favour the quicks - not today anyway. I would take 300 if they offered it to me now. I think that we can get them out for less than that if the pitch dries out a bit in the next couple of days. A good start for us for sure, and the supposed 'lesser lights' of the batting line up have kept us out of trouble. A good toss to win but until both sides have batted we don't really know where we are. |
Was a good start from us though I do think it's honours even. Stoneman and Vince batted well but very slowly. Massive first session tomorrow. If we can only lose 1 wicket before lunch I'll fancy us. | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 10:07 - Nov 23 with 2484 views | ElHoop |
| Ashes Thread on 09:57 - Nov 23 by ozexile |
Was a good start from us though I do think it's honours even. Stoneman and Vince batted well but very slowly. Massive first session tomorrow. If we can only lose 1 wicket before lunch I'll fancy us. |
They were a bit slow but you can't really blame them for that in the circumstances. They might not get another chance. Also, if we can stick out there long enough to take the best batting conditions away from the Aussies completely, then the slow scoring isn't quite so important. | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 10:50 - Nov 23 with 2454 views | ozexile |
| Ashes Thread on 10:07 - Nov 23 by ElHoop |
They were a bit slow but you can't really blame them for that in the circumstances. They might not get another chance. Also, if we can stick out there long enough to take the best batting conditions away from the Aussies completely, then the slow scoring isn't quite so important. |
Agree certainly can't blame them. | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 11:18 - Nov 23 with 2426 views | daveB |
I think 350 in the first innings of the 1st Ashes test is a very good score due to the pressure the batting side are under so England need to aim for that |  | | |
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| Ashes Thread on 13:29 - Nov 23 with 2343 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ashes Thread on 11:18 - Nov 23 by daveB |
I think 350 in the first innings of the 1st Ashes test is a very good score due to the pressure the batting side are under so England need to aim for that |
Agree. It's a realistic target, and we'll have had to bat to within an hour of tea to get there, I'd guess. That takes a bit more time out of the game, making it harder for Aus to go out and bash a big total (if they can!) to put us under pressure on days 4 and 5.
If Moeen and Malan get in tomorrow against the new ball that'll be huge. Malan has often opened and batted 3 for Middx so he is used to a swinging new ball (but then for Middx he bats a lot more aggressively!). Moeen will swing, I'd expect. Thrash 100 in that session for the loss of just 1 or 2, and we'll be a great position, and the Aussies will be deflated. If we lose both early, I fear we won't reach 270. And then we're right under the cosh. Finely balanced!
Keen to see how Moeen goes with the ball on the track given the turn it's taking. He gives it a lot of revs, and I expect ego will mean the Aussies will really want to come at him. Could see a few gifting their wickets away against him...as long as he holds his nerve, and keeps his line and length. If he starts throwing in a few full tosses after being put under pressure, Root will have to turn to himself or Malan (bowls handy leg spin for a non-front line bowler) which is far from ideal. |  | | |
| Ashes Thread on 13:55 - Nov 23 with 2324 views | ElHoop |
| Ashes Thread on 13:29 - Nov 23 by Hunterhoop |
Agree. It's a realistic target, and we'll have had to bat to within an hour of tea to get there, I'd guess. That takes a bit more time out of the game, making it harder for Aus to go out and bash a big total (if they can!) to put us under pressure on days 4 and 5.
If Moeen and Malan get in tomorrow against the new ball that'll be huge. Malan has often opened and batted 3 for Middx so he is used to a swinging new ball (but then for Middx he bats a lot more aggressively!). Moeen will swing, I'd expect. Thrash 100 in that session for the loss of just 1 or 2, and we'll be a great position, and the Aussies will be deflated. If we lose both early, I fear we won't reach 270. And then we're right under the cosh. Finely balanced!
Keen to see how Moeen goes with the ball on the track given the turn it's taking. He gives it a lot of revs, and I expect ego will mean the Aussies will really want to come at him. Could see a few gifting their wickets away against him...as long as he holds his nerve, and keeps his line and length. If he starts throwing in a few full tosses after being put under pressure, Root will have to turn to himself or Malan (bowls handy leg spin for a non-front line bowler) which is far from ideal. |
They were saying that the pitch might not turn so much for the next two days but that it'll get quicker - the way that the teams are set up that's in our favour I would say as our quicks could get them out fairly cheaply if the pitch is in their favour. We just need to bat for long enough for the pitch to get as quick as it's going to get. If we don't get a 1st innings lead then I think that we're in trouble here. 350 I reckon would definitely give us a lead but so would 300. If the pitch is going to end up doing stuff for the quicks then they'll struggle to get much more than 200 if we bowl well. | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 14:05 - Nov 23 with 2309 views | MrSheen |
Do the locals have an idea what the weather might do? My phone says rain on the last two days. | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 14:14 - Nov 23 with 2303 views | Mick_S |
As I type this in our office, my brother is printing the Barmy Army t-shirts in the other room.
I'm going to fold some now. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Ashes Thread on 14:31 - Nov 23 with 2287 views | HantsR |
| Ashes Thread on 06:41 - Nov 23 by MrSheen |
Did I read on here once that Vince was a Ranger? Jinxed him now. |
He's supposed to be a very good footballer but played for Reading Academy, wrong sort of hoops?
As he's 'Ampshire captain, I'm very keen on his progress and was delighted with his play this morning but devastated when he was run out on 83.
edit: just checked, he is an Rs fan 
[Post edited 23 Nov 2017 16:26]
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| Ashes Thread on 14:34 - Nov 23 with 2284 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ashes Thread on 13:55 - Nov 23 by ElHoop |
They were saying that the pitch might not turn so much for the next two days but that it'll get quicker - the way that the teams are set up that's in our favour I would say as our quicks could get them out fairly cheaply if the pitch is in their favour. We just need to bat for long enough for the pitch to get as quick as it's going to get. If we don't get a 1st innings lead then I think that we're in trouble here. 350 I reckon would definitely give us a lead but so would 300. If the pitch is going to end up doing stuff for the quicks then they'll struggle to get much more than 200 if we bowl well. |
A quicker pitch usually favours batsmen if there's no lateral movement...unless you have lightning quick bowlers, which we don't.
The pitch getting quicker comes from it drying out and firming up. If it dries out, it'll seam less (less live grass on the wicket and moisture in the top)...it'll be quicker, yes, but it will be flatter. That favours the batsmen. In order to dry out and get quicker, it'll need sun. That means a lack of cloud cover, which means it won't swing as much. It was cloudy on day 1 in large parts, which helped Aus swing it a little.
However, a pitch drying out AFTER being a bit soft and being played on, will mean rough patches outside off, on a length (for both LH and RH bats because Aus have had LH and RH bowlers running up and down it). This will mean dry, roughed up patches for the spinner. I think it will certainly be turning more by day 4. It's possible, albeit I don't agree with harder, drier surface on day 2/3, will kill the live grass and mean the spinner gets less grip, but i think the footmarks will outweigh that and it will continue to spin. It is very very rare a pitch turns less as it progresses.
Either way, it'll be easier to bat on days 2 and 3 (quicker, flatter wicket), but harder again on day 4 and 5 (rough patches worsen, and the quick pitch becomes up and down). This all favours Australia. The pitch will be best to bat on tomorrow afternoon through Day 3, and possibly into Day 4. Engalnd will have to bowl very well on it!
IF the pitch dries out slowly, it'll still be a bit stodgy for longer, making runs harder to come by, which will suit England's attack, who I think will look to put in place a "container" plan to frustrate the attacking Aussie batsmen.
Basically we don't want it to quicken up too much yet. There's a reason England do better in Adelaide. This is an Adelaide sort of wicket (albeit it's turning more, earlier than Adelaide!).
Time is as important as the score here. England want to get past 350, and bat to tea, or as close to it as they can. If they don't, I think Aus have a great chance of getting a first innings lead. If they do, but it's slight, England will get to bat on day 4 and Aus will have the unenviable task of batting day 5 (assuming no rain). If we only get 300 or less, Aus can bat the second half of day 2 and day 3, in the best batting conditions, bat onto into day 4 and try to rack up 400+. IF they did, England would be staring down the barrel.
England's best way to win is to bat as long tomorrow as they can for as big a score they can, because Aus will be batting on the wicket when it's at its best, i think.
No one is calling the groundsman out on this wicket, but it has all the tell tale signs of a groundsman getting his timing wrong. He didn't quite have it ready in time, and he's left a touch too much grass on it so there's grip for the spinner. | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 15:26 - Nov 23 with 2257 views | robith |
| Ashes Thread on 14:05 - Nov 23 by MrSheen |
Do the locals have an idea what the weather might do? My phone says rain on the last two days. |
What is the point of Australia if it's going to rain in test matches |  | | |
| Ashes Thread on 15:43 - Nov 23 with 2235 views | ElHoop |
| Ashes Thread on 14:34 - Nov 23 by Hunterhoop |
A quicker pitch usually favours batsmen if there's no lateral movement...unless you have lightning quick bowlers, which we don't.
The pitch getting quicker comes from it drying out and firming up. If it dries out, it'll seam less (less live grass on the wicket and moisture in the top)...it'll be quicker, yes, but it will be flatter. That favours the batsmen. In order to dry out and get quicker, it'll need sun. That means a lack of cloud cover, which means it won't swing as much. It was cloudy on day 1 in large parts, which helped Aus swing it a little.
However, a pitch drying out AFTER being a bit soft and being played on, will mean rough patches outside off, on a length (for both LH and RH bats because Aus have had LH and RH bowlers running up and down it). This will mean dry, roughed up patches for the spinner. I think it will certainly be turning more by day 4. It's possible, albeit I don't agree with harder, drier surface on day 2/3, will kill the live grass and mean the spinner gets less grip, but i think the footmarks will outweigh that and it will continue to spin. It is very very rare a pitch turns less as it progresses.
Either way, it'll be easier to bat on days 2 and 3 (quicker, flatter wicket), but harder again on day 4 and 5 (rough patches worsen, and the quick pitch becomes up and down). This all favours Australia. The pitch will be best to bat on tomorrow afternoon through Day 3, and possibly into Day 4. Engalnd will have to bowl very well on it!
IF the pitch dries out slowly, it'll still be a bit stodgy for longer, making runs harder to come by, which will suit England's attack, who I think will look to put in place a "container" plan to frustrate the attacking Aussie batsmen.
Basically we don't want it to quicken up too much yet. There's a reason England do better in Adelaide. This is an Adelaide sort of wicket (albeit it's turning more, earlier than Adelaide!).
Time is as important as the score here. England want to get past 350, and bat to tea, or as close to it as they can. If they don't, I think Aus have a great chance of getting a first innings lead. If they do, but it's slight, England will get to bat on day 4 and Aus will have the unenviable task of batting day 5 (assuming no rain). If we only get 300 or less, Aus can bat the second half of day 2 and day 3, in the best batting conditions, bat onto into day 4 and try to rack up 400+. IF they did, England would be staring down the barrel.
England's best way to win is to bat as long tomorrow as they can for as big a score they can, because Aus will be batting on the wicket when it's at its best, i think.
No one is calling the groundsman out on this wicket, but it has all the tell tale signs of a groundsman getting his timing wrong. He didn't quite have it ready in time, and he's left a touch too much grass on it so there's grip for the spinner. |
That's all fair enough Hunter.
I don't know enough about the pitch or pitches in general, so I tend to go by what has happened in the past on the same track. Last ime this is what happened:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11899/scorecard/592397/Australia-vs-England-1
It's fair to say that the track isn't the same this time, but is it going to get any better? If it dries out a bit then I can't see it being easier to bat on, whether it swings or not. We had them in trouble in their first innings on the last tour but couldn't finish the job, but I'd say that our attack is a little better this time.
I love to have a bet on the runs and I'm going to lay them in the Aussie innings. They'll be expected to score big and i don't think that they will. It's a cheap lay, as it were, and if it comes off it's a good earner.
We'll find out soon enough - give me test cricket any day of the week - it's fascinating. Unique. | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 17:48 - Nov 23 with 2167 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ashes Thread on 15:43 - Nov 23 by ElHoop |
That's all fair enough Hunter.
I don't know enough about the pitch or pitches in general, so I tend to go by what has happened in the past on the same track. Last ime this is what happened:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11899/scorecard/592397/Australia-vs-England-1
It's fair to say that the track isn't the same this time, but is it going to get any better? If it dries out a bit then I can't see it being easier to bat on, whether it swings or not. We had them in trouble in their first innings on the last tour but couldn't finish the job, but I'd say that our attack is a little better this time.
I love to have a bet on the runs and I'm going to lay them in the Aussie innings. They'll be expected to score big and i don't think that they will. It's a cheap lay, as it were, and if it comes off it's a good earner.
We'll find out soon enough - give me test cricket any day of the week - it's fascinating. Unique. |
Certainly agree with you Australi's batting is not all that! I've even, somewhat ambitiously, said we'd win the series. I just think it's highly likely Australia will be batting on this pitch when it's at its best for batting. I just don't think the pitch was ready yesterday!
Not sure I agree on Eng's bowling. Think Woakes will be our biggest threat but it's unlikely he'll get the new ball. Broad's form worries me a bit. Hope I'm proved wrong there! | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 00:22 - Nov 24 with 2047 views | timcocking |
It's good to see the Aussies class as usual...
Ps The Barmy Army just did a rendition of the British national anthem with somebody dressed as the Her Majesty and when they finished the whole stadium applauded. That's a nice touch by the Aussies, credit where it's due.
The Barmy Army then proceeded to remind the Aussies she's their queen too. Ha. Gotta love the British fans, always quality. [Post edited 24 Nov 2017 1:13]
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| Ashes Thread on 01:24 - Nov 24 with 2030 views | jonno |
All too predictable batting collapse from England. |  | | |
| Ashes Thread on 01:37 - Nov 24 with 2026 views | timcocking |
Ffs. | | | |
| Ashes Thread on 02:39 - Nov 24 with 2008 views | joolsyp |
| Ashes Thread on 14:31 - Nov 23 by HantsR |
He's supposed to be a very good footballer but played for Reading Academy, wrong sort of hoops?
As he's 'Ampshire captain, I'm very keen on his progress and was delighted with his play this morning but devastated when he was run out on 83.
edit: just checked, he is an Rs fan
[Post edited 23 Nov 2017 16:26]
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As a Hampshire cricket and Rs fan that makes me very happy indeed! |  | | |
| Ashes Thread on 08:20 - Nov 24 with 1947 views | TheChef |
Think Australia have the edge now - unless we can get some early wickets tomorrow morning.
Need our bloomin lower order to stand up and be counted on this tour. One failure already. |  |
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| Ashes Thread on 08:45 - Nov 24 with 1936 views | stowmarketrange |
| Ashes Thread on 08:20 - Nov 24 by TheChef |
Think Australia have the edge now - unless we can get some early wickets tomorrow morning.
Need our bloomin lower order to stand up and be counted on this tour. One failure already. |
I don’t think the tail did too bad today really.It was our 2 best batsmen that let us down in the first innings.All 3 newbies got 50’s,which is a good sign.
It’s still all to play for but we need to break this partnership early tomorrow. |  | | |
| Ashes Thread on 08:56 - Nov 24 with 1920 views | BlackCrowe |
Pretty match honours even at stumps with Oz probably just about having the edge. However, if we can break that partnership early doors at midnight tonight... | |
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