| Will labour ever get back into power? 10:52 - Dec 23 with 20525 views | mrrockin |
I've been following the recent labour news with amusement and a bit of sadness (yes genuinely) - it's painfully obvious that the tories are going to win an increased majority possibly even a landslide in 2020.
By this point the left of labour will have a stranglehold over labour and this will mean there is no hope for the right of labour which closely mirrors the early 80's with the breakaway of the SDP.
Personally I believe the likes of Denis Healey made a mistake and the moderates should have left on mass to join the SDP and leave the socialists to keep the red flag flying high. Maybe as CB has long argued it is time for a voting change.
I was very skeptical about voting change but I personally thought the coalition largely did a superb job and I was disappointed it didn't continue in many ways. I largely support this Gov but I'm more in the centre so I'd prefer the right wingers to be more restrained which the coalition provided.
My point is that under the present system labour will never recover and it might be time for a realignment to take place in British politics.
[Post edited 23 Dec 2015 10:53]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:17 - Dec 30 with 1700 views | acejack3065 |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:03 - Dec 30 by Cottsy |
Yep the Labour Party is going to split because a handful of MPs, most probably preempting their own deselection before 2020, are going to stand down.
I can just see the hundreds of thousands of people who have joined the party in the last few months leaving in droves because Simon Danczuk, Tristram Hunt and Chris Leslie might leave the party. |
I'm no Corbynista by any stretch but Tristram *unt and Chris Leslie can jog on. I'd happily pay for their yearly subscription to the Liberal Democrats. F**k knows what Simon Danczuk has been smoking these last few weeks to give him that inflated sense of self importance. He's playing politics badly at the moment and he's starting to look like a right knob. |  | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:17 - Dec 30 with 1700 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 22:54 - Dec 29 by trampie |
Quite Brynnie not sure what mrrockin point is.
Millions of people in this country are in the same boat Brynmill, the gap between the rich and the not rich just gets bigger and bigger, red, blue and yellow Tories just keep doing their stuff . [Post edited 29 Dec 2015 23:06]
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He's probably in receipt of a pension you and I could only dream of while he pontificates about the money grabbing and feckless poor. Beggars the lot of them.
His points have been refuted at every turn on this thread by facts that he "can't be arsed to reply to" because he's got nothing to back his empty statements up with.
Worst WUM ever, and most offensive . |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 12:47 - Dec 30 with 1667 views | skippyjack |
You do know figures are skewed in the most devastating fashion.. people in 'high' places fraudulently corrupt the files and work with the benefit claimants simultaneously.. whilst also mixing up National Insurance numbers with other people and fraudulent documents?
The educations corrupt files.. dating back to 1948 and even earlier.. Like Albert Einstein & Sigmund Freud being highly intoxicated with hallucinogenic substances because their schizophrenic ego's were being destroyed?.. because they were professors.. they could get away with being diagnosed as nutters... it's still happening today.. you see people in high places right off their t*ts.. putting on an act, to hide their insanity.
Her Majesty's Police files being fabricated since the 1920s?.. like the Police and Government officials conspiring in a pedophile ring, prostitution market and drug smuggling.
Health records being tampered and f*cking sweeping millions of cases under a fire like confetti.. Nurses f*cking patients.. Dr's f*cking nurses in a morgue.. Dr's going to the toilet to have a line.. come back and start twitching while talking to you.. don't get me started on the 'mysterious deaths' list..
It's about time they all grew up.. be responsible and accountable in their profession.
Because it's only the younger generation that will suffer..
Blame those 'anti work' people!! |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 12:57 - Dec 30 with 1653 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 12:47 - Dec 30 by skippyjack |
You do know figures are skewed in the most devastating fashion.. people in 'high' places fraudulently corrupt the files and work with the benefit claimants simultaneously.. whilst also mixing up National Insurance numbers with other people and fraudulent documents?
The educations corrupt files.. dating back to 1948 and even earlier.. Like Albert Einstein & Sigmund Freud being highly intoxicated with hallucinogenic substances because their schizophrenic ego's were being destroyed?.. because they were professors.. they could get away with being diagnosed as nutters... it's still happening today.. you see people in high places right off their t*ts.. putting on an act, to hide their insanity.
Her Majesty's Police files being fabricated since the 1920s?.. like the Police and Government officials conspiring in a pedophile ring, prostitution market and drug smuggling.
Health records being tampered and f*cking sweeping millions of cases under a fire like confetti.. Nurses f*cking patients.. Dr's f*cking nurses in a morgue.. Dr's going to the toilet to have a line.. come back and start twitching while talking to you.. don't get me started on the 'mysterious deaths' list..
It's about time they all grew up.. be responsible and accountable in their profession.
Because it's only the younger generation that will suffer..
Blame those 'anti work' people!! |
that's why I nominated you for poster of the year skip.
Superb stuff |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:13 - Dec 30 with 1608 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:06 - Dec 29 by exiledclaseboy |
Despite our polar opposite views on many things, Rockin and I get on famously. Nemesis implies an enemy. I don't see him as that. |
Yep, I happen to find ECB the most impressive member of this forum.
His posts always make me think. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:44 - Dec 30 with 1602 views | skippyjack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 20:46 - Dec 29 by Lohengrin |
Actually it inculpates. Skippy is telling you that your sins have found you out and the agent of Divine retribution is at hand.
Skip's a Grecian. He's damning you Aeolian style.   |
Polar is the key word. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:50 - Dec 30 with 1600 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 22:54 - Dec 29 by trampie |
Quite Brynnie not sure what mrrockin point is.
Millions of people in this country are in the same boat Brynmill, the gap between the rich and the not rich just gets bigger and bigger, red, blue and yellow Tories just keep doing their stuff . [Post edited 29 Dec 2015 23:06]
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My point is quite simple, what do you want?
The original poster said he's earning just above min wage and negligible disposable income.
Let's take those points in isolation:
On minimum wage - the min wage is going to rise to over £9 by end of Parliament.
Since the coalition came in the tax allowance has risen to over 12k which means those low earners barely pay income tax.
What more can the Government do exactly? Serious question. | | | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:06 - Dec 30 with 1593 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 12:47 - Dec 30 by skippyjack |
You do know figures are skewed in the most devastating fashion.. people in 'high' places fraudulently corrupt the files and work with the benefit claimants simultaneously.. whilst also mixing up National Insurance numbers with other people and fraudulent documents?
The educations corrupt files.. dating back to 1948 and even earlier.. Like Albert Einstein & Sigmund Freud being highly intoxicated with hallucinogenic substances because their schizophrenic ego's were being destroyed?.. because they were professors.. they could get away with being diagnosed as nutters... it's still happening today.. you see people in high places right off their t*ts.. putting on an act, to hide their insanity.
Her Majesty's Police files being fabricated since the 1920s?.. like the Police and Government officials conspiring in a pedophile ring, prostitution market and drug smuggling.
Health records being tampered and f*cking sweeping millions of cases under a fire like confetti.. Nurses f*cking patients.. Dr's f*cking nurses in a morgue.. Dr's going to the toilet to have a line.. come back and start twitching while talking to you.. don't get me started on the 'mysterious deaths' list..
It's about time they all grew up.. be responsible and accountable in their profession.
Because it's only the younger generation that will suffer..
Blame those 'anti work' people!! |
What the actual f*ck?! |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:06 - Dec 30 with 1593 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:50 - Dec 30 by mrrockin |
My point is quite simple, what do you want?
The original poster said he's earning just above min wage and negligible disposable income.
Let's take those points in isolation:
On minimum wage - the min wage is going to rise to over £9 by end of Parliament.
Since the coalition came in the tax allowance has risen to over 12k which means those low earners barely pay income tax.
What more can the Government do exactly? Serious question. |
They need to start taxing spare bedrooms
That'll learn em | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:09 - Dec 30 with 1566 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:50 - Dec 30 by mrrockin |
My point is quite simple, what do you want?
The original poster said he's earning just above min wage and negligible disposable income.
Let's take those points in isolation:
On minimum wage - the min wage is going to rise to over £9 by end of Parliament.
Since the coalition came in the tax allowance has risen to over 12k which means those low earners barely pay income tax.
What more can the Government do exactly? Serious question. |
You're glossing over the fact that the rise in the minimum wage comes hand in hand with the end of tax credits and the introduction of the much vaunted Universal Credit. Which are all designed to see government spending as little as possible and shifting the burden to employers. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:13 - Dec 30 with 1557 views | blueytheblue |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:06 - Dec 30 by oh_tommy_tommy |
They need to start taxing spare bedrooms
That'll learn em |
Or rather than citing a non-existent tax, they removed the spare bedroom subsidy. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:18 - Dec 30 with 1553 views | waynekerr55 |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:13 - Dec 30 by blueytheblue |
Or rather than citing a non-existent tax, they removed the spare bedroom subsidy. |
Well said.
FFS, it is not a tax.
PS - I think it's an ill thought policy, given the dearth of social housing. |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:20 - Dec 30 with 1552 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:09 - Dec 30 by exiledclaseboy |
You're glossing over the fact that the rise in the minimum wage comes hand in hand with the end of tax credits and the introduction of the much vaunted Universal Credit. Which are all designed to see government spending as little as possible and shifting the burden to employers. |
Tax credit cuts scrapped now mate, but that aside it wouldn't effect people at that level anyway. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:21 - Dec 30 with 1549 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:06 - Dec 30 by oh_tommy_tommy |
They need to start taxing spare bedrooms
That'll learn em |
Genius, what a reply. You totally destroyed my argument. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:22 - Dec 30 with 1547 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:18 - Dec 30 by waynekerr55 |
Well said.
FFS, it is not a tax.
PS - I think it's an ill thought policy, given the dearth of social housing. |
Yep totally agree, I think it's a fine policy in principal in practice there needed to be more one bed vacancies.
But it's literally all you ever hear and yes it's not a tax! It's a reduction in benefit. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:25 - Dec 30 with 1545 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:20 - Dec 30 by mrrockin |
Tax credit cuts scrapped now mate, but that aside it wouldn't effect people at that level anyway. |
The immediate changes were scrapped but they're going by 2020 regardless | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:27 - Dec 30 with 1541 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:25 - Dec 30 by exiledclaseboy |
The immediate changes were scrapped but they're going by 2020 regardless |
By that point the changes in wages will have taken away the effects. That's why the tory backbenches were up in arms because the speed of the changes were damaging.
But now people on low earnings are much better off as they have been since 2010. The people who have suffered are on benefits and much of that is not BEFORE TIME. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:29 - Dec 30 with 1539 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:13 - Dec 30 by blueytheblue |
Or rather than citing a non-existent tax, they removed the spare bedroom subsidy. |
There was no such subsidy to remove. It didn't exist. They introduced a new rule whereby anyone with a room that the DWP deemed they didn't need had their Housing Benefit reduced. It's not like there was a be benefit called the Spare Room Subsidy that they just decided to stop paying. Yes, it's not a tax but seeing as the end result is a reduction in income the effect is much the same. It's a misguided policy designed to force people into smaller homes that simply don't exist in the numbers needed to make it effective. It also forces families to poentially move away from the area where they have had roots for generations. [Post edited 30 Dec 2015 17:31]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:32 - Dec 30 with 1533 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:29 - Dec 30 by exiledclaseboy |
There was no such subsidy to remove. It didn't exist. They introduced a new rule whereby anyone with a room that the DWP deemed they didn't need had their Housing Benefit reduced. It's not like there was a be benefit called the Spare Room Subsidy that they just decided to stop paying. Yes, it's not a tax but seeing as the end result is a reduction in income the effect is much the same. It's a misguided policy designed to force people into smaller homes that simply don't exist in the numbers needed to make it effective. It also forces families to poentially move away from the area where they have had roots for generations. [Post edited 30 Dec 2015 17:31]
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It was actually a policy which was considered by new labour, there is a problem with people hogging council properties so the argument for more incentives for them to leave in order for someone with more need to be makes perfect sense.
The problem was implementation, I'm almost certain that without all the hysteria about it that the policy would have been amended but because of the media obsessions with U-turns they've not changed it. But in principle the idea is correct, but we do need to build more one bed social housing. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:35 - Dec 30 with 1533 views | blueytheblue |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:29 - Dec 30 by exiledclaseboy |
There was no such subsidy to remove. It didn't exist. They introduced a new rule whereby anyone with a room that the DWP deemed they didn't need had their Housing Benefit reduced. It's not like there was a be benefit called the Spare Room Subsidy that they just decided to stop paying. Yes, it's not a tax but seeing as the end result is a reduction in income the effect is much the same. It's a misguided policy designed to force people into smaller homes that simply don't exist in the numbers needed to make it effective. It also forces families to poentially move away from the area where they have had roots for generations. [Post edited 30 Dec 2015 17:31]
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Well, if you're getting money for something over and above your requirements, yeah it was a subsidy.
I get the whole "roots" issue but let's be honest, why should taxpayers pay for someone to live in a place too big for them? When my wife and I rented a flat, a neighbour had housing benefit. His wife had died, he was always moaning the place was now too big. Wife suggested maybe moving somewhere smaller, plenty on waiting list for housing. His reply was "f*** them".
Agree housing does need to be built. Not a big fan of the building industry, their practises have lead to many tax changes. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:38 - Dec 30 with 1527 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:35 - Dec 30 by blueytheblue |
Well, if you're getting money for something over and above your requirements, yeah it was a subsidy.
I get the whole "roots" issue but let's be honest, why should taxpayers pay for someone to live in a place too big for them? When my wife and I rented a flat, a neighbour had housing benefit. His wife had died, he was always moaning the place was now too big. Wife suggested maybe moving somewhere smaller, plenty on waiting list for housing. His reply was "f*** them".
Agree housing does need to be built. Not a big fan of the building industry, their practises have lead to many tax changes. |
Yep in the private sector people are constantly moving for changing circumstances:
e.g.. start a family - bigger house
Change in income - up or down
Retiring - downsize
I've got an Aunt who lives a big Council house absolutely no need at all, a family could be in there. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:45 - Dec 30 with 1520 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:32 - Dec 30 by mrrockin |
It was actually a policy which was considered by new labour, there is a problem with people hogging council properties so the argument for more incentives for them to leave in order for someone with more need to be makes perfect sense.
The problem was implementation, I'm almost certain that without all the hysteria about it that the policy would have been amended but because of the media obsessions with U-turns they've not changed it. But in principle the idea is correct, but we do need to build more one bed social housing. |
Labour first introduced it for private sector tenants. You know me well enough to know that I don't defend Labour blindly. Please tell Bluey, it's always his first response to me. I didn't agree with it then and I don't now. In the case of council tenants especially these aren't just houses, they're long standing family homes. The policy is cack handed, wrong and disproportionately disadvantages those who can least afford it. Again. | |
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