| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:10 - Nov 14 with 2157 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 15:59 - Nov 14 by shimmie |
Not doubting it for a second, but the rhetoric snork is banding about is the same old bolloxs you hear every time in your average cafe that we should just go and "carpet bomb the bastards". Do we not learn anything? The Iraq war started this as we put in a Shia govenment who marganilised the previously highly represented Sunni minority, who Sadam looked after being a Sunni himself. We go in, take out all of ISIL, killing more and more innocents that is an inevitability of war and in doing so recurit the next generation of anti west fanatics. All the time margalising those who live here already.
The answer? F*ck knows, but if this isn't a clear indication that mass multi culturalism doesn't work I don't know what is. Those involved I'd stick money on are ex criminals who have swaped one gang for another, to be part of something. Its already to late and it's only going to get worse. [Post edited 14 Nov 2015 16:01]
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IMO the only answer is to divide Iraq into 3 nations - Shiite, Sunni, and Kurd. The West created this problem at the end of WWI when we created a country that was never going to be unified. |  |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:10 - Nov 14 with 2152 views | blueytheblue |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 15:59 - Nov 14 by shimmie |
Not doubting it for a second, but the rhetoric snork is banding about is the same old bolloxs you hear every time in your average cafe that we should just go and "carpet bomb the bastards". Do we not learn anything? The Iraq war started this as we put in a Shia govenment who marganilised the previously highly represented Sunni minority, who Sadam looked after being a Sunni himself. We go in, take out all of ISIL, killing more and more innocents that is an inevitability of war and in doing so recurit the next generation of anti west fanatics. All the time margalising those who live here already.
The answer? F*ck knows, but if this isn't a clear indication that mass multi culturalism doesn't work I don't know what is. Those involved I'd stick money on are ex criminals who have swaped one gang for another, to be part of something. Its already to late and it's only going to get worse. [Post edited 14 Nov 2015 16:01]
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Personally I'd be tempted to go in, deal with ISIL, refuse to back any potential government and tell them to sort their own sh*t out from then onwards.
Multi culturalism can and does work -where non natives have a desire to work within the existing culture rather than expecting their own to take priority. Example; FGM. Not acceptable in our culture whatsoever. |  |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:25 - Nov 14 with 2125 views | Lord_Bony |
So we go into Iraq,Libya and Syria blow the feck out of the place and get rid of the dictators there who kept these people in check.
Then ISIS is born to fill the power vacuum and we not only turn a blind eye but we fund and arm them in order to overthrow regimes.
Many of us warned at the time the dangerous game we were playing and how it would come back to bite us...but were laughed at and ridiculed..
Well now its come back and will get worse...
Moral of the story..stop fecking about in other countries business that does nt concern us... If we did nt help these grow in SYria and Iraq we would be ok. |  |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:28 - Nov 14 with 2118 views | blueytheblue |
Agreed, however not acting with force against ISIL is not the answer. | |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:31 - Nov 14 with 2106 views | exiledclaseboy |
Assad or Isis. Time to decide. |  |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:33 - Nov 14 with 2097 views | blueytheblue |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:31 - Nov 14 by exiledclaseboy |
Assad or Isis. Time to decide. |
Sadly Assad for the single reason that he's not the one committing attacks in Europe.
EDIT:
But your post showed why no answer is really a perfect answer.
Bolster Assad to fight ISIL - get accused of supporting his abuses.
Depose Assad - embolden ISIL, help ISIL, get accused of interfering in another nation's government.
Destroy ISIL ignore Assad - get accused of supporting Assad's abuses.
Do nothing - ISIL attacks continue world wide, accused of ignoring plight of Syrians et al. [Post edited 14 Nov 2015 16:36]
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:35 - Nov 14 with 2086 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:33 - Nov 14 by blueytheblue |
Sadly Assad for the single reason that he's not the one committing attacks in Europe.
EDIT:
But your post showed why no answer is really a perfect answer.
Bolster Assad to fight ISIL - get accused of supporting his abuses.
Depose Assad - embolden ISIL, help ISIL, get accused of interfering in another nation's government.
Destroy ISIL ignore Assad - get accused of supporting Assad's abuses.
Do nothing - ISIL attacks continue world wide, accused of ignoring plight of Syrians et al. [Post edited 14 Nov 2015 16:36]
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There's only one sensible choice. It's not a palatable one for sure. | |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:36 - Nov 14 with 2083 views | Lord_Bony |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:28 - Nov 14 by blueytheblue |
Agreed, however not acting with force against ISIL is not the answer. |
Well yes,but now we have to SERIOUSLY sort this whole shitty mess that we helped create once and for all.
Personally, I like the stance of Putin who just clinically goes straight for the jugular and is making a big difference,including bombing sections of the Syrian Rebels who are funded by us but infested with Al Qaeda and ISIL.
We MUST take back the oil fields that are funding them with boots on the ground...this is the next step of the Russians...it would be nice if we could have a united front east and west to go in and do this. | |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:38 - Nov 14 with 2065 views | controversial_jack |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 12:46 - Nov 14 by snork44 |
A caveat to what I said yesterday it is reported by the French Police that on one of the bodies of the terrorists was a Syrian passport. What needs to be done is a repealing of the Human Rights laws, no more denying extradition of a suspect because the poor dear may be tortured if he is sent to Jordan or if Abdul fathered a child the he cannot be deported as that would deprived him of a family life. We need to now to say to the masses at Sangatte if they cannot be allowed into the UK, no more sending them to Lunatic House in Croydon when they land here,just detain them fingerprint and DNA swab them and send them either to their country of origin or if they have no indentity papers to their perceived country of origin. |
Is there anything in the human rights act which stops deportation, because I can't find it? | | | |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:39 - Nov 14 with 2061 views | blueytheblue |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:36 - Nov 14 by Lord_Bony |
Well yes,but now we have to SERIOUSLY sort this whole shitty mess that we helped create once and for all.
Personally, I like the stance of Putin who just clinically goes straight for the jugular and is making a big difference,including bombing sections of the Syrian Rebels who are funded by us but infested with Al Qaeda and ISIL.
We MUST take back the oil fields that are funding them with boots on the ground...this is the next step of the Russians...it would be nice if we could have a united front east and west to go in and do this. |
I'd be interested to see if there are any attacks in Russia. I'd doubt there would be for several reasons that aren't related to the situation but...
It's one thing to take back the oil fields but ISIL's funding comes from other sources for the most part. It could conceievably come to bombing the f*** out of every nation in the region with the exception of Israel - and even bomb them if you believe some of the conspiracy loons.
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Putin's actions are more expedient to assist Assad. I doubt he'd give a flying f*uk abut ISIL. Russia aren't being attacked. Doesn't give a sh*t about the West. [Post edited 14 Nov 2015 16:40]
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:41 - Nov 14 with 2042 views | skippyjack |
Who's going to France 2016? |  |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:45 - Nov 14 with 2025 views | jackportis |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:00 - Nov 14 by daijack15 |
your wrong there buddy.......The majority of Muslims are just like you and me and only want to live in peace..... |
Yes but we are irrelevant. |  |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:48 - Nov 14 with 2002 views | Lord_Bony |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:39 - Nov 14 by blueytheblue |
I'd be interested to see if there are any attacks in Russia. I'd doubt there would be for several reasons that aren't related to the situation but...
It's one thing to take back the oil fields but ISIL's funding comes from other sources for the most part. It could conceievably come to bombing the f*** out of every nation in the region with the exception of Israel - and even bomb them if you believe some of the conspiracy loons.
EDIT:
Putin's actions are more expedient to assist Assad. I doubt he'd give a flying f*uk abut ISIL. Russia aren't being attacked. Doesn't give a sh*t about the West. [Post edited 14 Nov 2015 16:40]
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I don t give a fack mate if Assad remains in power...he was never a threat to us and Syrians enjoyed a high standard of living under his rule. Even if he was a brutal dictator to some..that's how it works in that part of the world.
What I don't want is ISIL becoming the next government because all we've done is pussyfoot around them. Had not Putin taken decisive action recently that's what would have happened.
Enough is enough. | |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:50 - Nov 14 with 1992 views | controversial_jack |
That's fair enough., But it's not in the human rights act | | | |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:51 - Nov 14 with 1987 views | monmouth |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:48 - Nov 14 by Lord_Bony |
I don t give a fack mate if Assad remains in power...he was never a threat to us and Syrians enjoyed a high standard of living under his rule. Even if he was a brutal dictator to some..that's how it works in that part of the world.
What I don't want is ISIL becoming the next government because all we've done is pussyfoot around them. Had not Putin taken decisive action recently that's what would have happened.
Enough is enough. |
The sad but indisputable truth is, if Saddam was still in power, persecuting minorities, as all power mad leaders do (ours and Yanks included, in their different ways) the world would be more stable and safer. |  |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:52 - Nov 14 with 1986 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:41 - Nov 14 by skippyjack |
Who's going to France 2016? |
Has it happens skip I started planning that about an hour before all that dreadful stuff started last night. |  |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:54 - Nov 14 with 1975 views | Lord_Bony |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:51 - Nov 14 by monmouth |
The sad but indisputable truth is, if Saddam was still in power, persecuting minorities, as all power mad leaders do (ours and Yanks included, in their different ways) the world would be more stable and safer. |
Exactly...and the same goes for Gadaffi in Libya.
We get rid of these people and there's a power vacuum to be filled with many different factions and tribes fighting each other....madness. | |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:54 - Nov 14 with 1970 views | blueytheblue |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:48 - Nov 14 by Lord_Bony |
I don t give a fack mate if Assad remains in power...he was never a threat to us and Syrians enjoyed a high standard of living under his rule. Even if he was a brutal dictator to some..that's how it works in that part of the world.
What I don't want is ISIL becoming the next government because all we've done is pussyfoot around them. Had not Putin taken decisive action recently that's what would have happened.
Enough is enough. |
Agree on Assad. Sometimes the alternative is worse; plenty believe "must do something to help the oppressed" which is noble, sure, just doesn't reflect reality. Applying Western values into cultures diammetrically opposed doesn't really work - and has echoes of the crusades.
Even if time, money and effort was spent training up forces, well, the march of ISIL has shown that the bulk of the "trained" troops simply ran away when they heard footsteps.
If ISIL are defeated in Syria, that's not the end of it. I doubt Putin would act should they retreat from Syria - no real major interest or he'd have acted sooner. The money will still flow into ISIL so we'd be looking at action against say Qatar, Saudis... | |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:58 - Nov 14 with 1957 views | skippyjack |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:52 - Nov 14 by oh_tommy_tommy |
Has it happens skip I started planning that about an hour before all that dreadful stuff started last night. |
It's an event they would certainly target.. the police foiled a few attempts at London 2012..
but France is vastly bigger | |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 17:00 - Nov 14 with 1948 views | Private_Partz |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:36 - Nov 14 by Lord_Bony |
Well yes,but now we have to SERIOUSLY sort this whole shitty mess that we helped create once and for all.
Personally, I like the stance of Putin who just clinically goes straight for the jugular and is making a big difference,including bombing sections of the Syrian Rebels who are funded by us but infested with Al Qaeda and ISIL.
We MUST take back the oil fields that are funding them with boots on the ground...this is the next step of the Russians...it would be nice if we could have a united front east and west to go in and do this. |
Shoot and ask questions later Is something that has been the West's undoing in the past but I cannot argue with the sentiment. We have more to agree than disagree with Russia a the moment. We need to secure the Syria / Iraq border and ensure there are no territories in either country occupied by ISIS. In conjunction we must cut off the supply of funding. I don't know enough about the area but I have heard Saudi A and Quatar have been involved with this. Plus who is buying the oil produced? We need to cut off the supply of funds to them
The price to pay would be a brutal dictator left in Syria but he would be there to be knocked back in the future with a combination sanctions and financial pressures. As far as Iraq is concerned then the UN would need to ensure security in the region whilst a democracy is allowed to develope. Initiatives from them have been seriously lacking so far. A vacuum must not be left again for extremeism to develope again whatever.
If these objectives are met we are them left with the worldwide problem of the disenfranchised and weak who would still be subject to exploitation by the extremists. Working within the Muslim communities is the way forward and the U.K. may very well be leading the way on this and could become a blueprint for others to follow. It will not stop terrorist attacks in the short or medium term but it would provide the building bricks for the future.
It is not easy and similar initiatives would be needed in Afghanistan and Lybia. The refugee crisis will be with us for a long time yet. We also have to help develope some of N African nations to stop economic migration as well.
It is one Hell of a job but I believe all of the civilised world has an interest in seeing that such initiatives are a success. [Post edited 14 Nov 2015 17:02]
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| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 17:01 - Nov 14 with 1945 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:48 - Nov 14 by Lord_Bony |
I don t give a fack mate if Assad remains in power...he was never a threat to us and Syrians enjoyed a high standard of living under his rule. Even if he was a brutal dictator to some..that's how it works in that part of the world.
What I don't want is ISIL becoming the next government because all we've done is pussyfoot around them. Had not Putin taken decisive action recently that's what would have happened.
Enough is enough. |
If we had backed Assad in the first place and helped him overcome the rebelion in his own country, instead of assissting in destabilizing him and giving ISIL more time and power perhaps the Syrian army would have been on the forefront of the battle against these lunatics. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 17:01 - Nov 14 with 1945 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 16:50 - Nov 14 by controversial_jack |
That's fair enough., But it's not in the human rights act |
Not explicitly in the text no, but it is one of the practical effects. One I agree with, I hasten to add. | |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 17:07 - Nov 14 with 1915 views | Brynmill_Jack |
It being reported that these people were part of a cell , mostly from Syria. One of the attackers apparently has been named and the Greek autorities have confirmed that he passed through the island of Limnos in October.
The cell apparently came via Brussels and the black car that police were trying to find has been identified as belonging to an adress in the Belgian captial. A house has been raided and arrests have been made.
What does this mean for the whole refugee crisis and those that are currently en route to western Europe? Do you turn back 800,000 people??? | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 17:10 - Nov 14 with 1901 views | blueytheblue |
| Shootings & Explosions in Paris on 17:07 - Nov 14 by Brynmill_Jack |
It being reported that these people were part of a cell , mostly from Syria. One of the attackers apparently has been named and the Greek autorities have confirmed that he passed through the island of Limnos in October.
The cell apparently came via Brussels and the black car that police were trying to find has been identified as belonging to an adress in the Belgian captial. A house has been raided and arrests have been made.
What does this mean for the whole refugee crisis and those that are currently en route to western Europe? Do you turn back 800,000 people??? |
Yes, unless you have sufficient resources and intelligence to accurately determine who is a legitimate refugee and who is a terrorist. | |
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