| Whatever happened to "merit" on 12:48 - Oct 28 with 1493 views | isitme |
| Whatever happened to "merit" on 11:51 - Oct 28 by 49thseason |
Is it fair that half a class of kids ( boys) can go through the whole of their primary education and most of their secondary schooling without having a male teacher as a role model? Shouldnt we be recruiting more me into teaching? Isnt it possible that the lack of male role models in schools is what is putiing off white working class lads off education and the reason so many end up jobless and aimless? |
It is an interesting point and a fair one. Males are significantly under represented as primary school teachers. Due to restrictions at the gym I have become friendly with two Muslim guys who teach at primary schools locally and to quote them they would say they are rarer then hens teeth. Both are really good guys who are positive role models. This morning we were actually talking about engagement of young boys from disadvantaged backgrounds and that it is often about establishing relationships first, something his female support assistants are not prepared to do. For some boys a supportive teacher may be the only positive male role model they have in their lives. You can also question why men do not go into primary school teaching. Is the environment inclusive enough? There is also the unfortunate and undeserved stigma surrounding male primary school teachers. Thankfully it is dying away.
To address Dalien's points. Let's flip it. Look at the characteristics of the highest performing boys. In this country boys of Chinese and Indian heritage perform the best. Their families value education and there is a strong father presence and role ingrained in their cultures. The same is true within black African communities. The same traits are often missing within the lowest performing boys. Historic initiatives and curriculum revisions have also focused on improving outcomes for other groups.
Ben Bradley has done a lot of work the relatively poor performance of 'white working class boys' in education. They are the most under represented group in university education. Although some would argue other career paths are much better than chasing a university degree.
Therefore I agree that more men should be teaching in primary schools, especially a greater ethnic mix. The bigger question should be how do you attract and retain them? |  | |  |
| Whatever happened to on 12:55 - Oct 28 with 1477 views | D_Alien |
| Whatever happened to "merit" on 12:48 - Oct 28 by isitme |
It is an interesting point and a fair one. Males are significantly under represented as primary school teachers. Due to restrictions at the gym I have become friendly with two Muslim guys who teach at primary schools locally and to quote them they would say they are rarer then hens teeth. Both are really good guys who are positive role models. This morning we were actually talking about engagement of young boys from disadvantaged backgrounds and that it is often about establishing relationships first, something his female support assistants are not prepared to do. For some boys a supportive teacher may be the only positive male role model they have in their lives. You can also question why men do not go into primary school teaching. Is the environment inclusive enough? There is also the unfortunate and undeserved stigma surrounding male primary school teachers. Thankfully it is dying away.
To address Dalien's points. Let's flip it. Look at the characteristics of the highest performing boys. In this country boys of Chinese and Indian heritage perform the best. Their families value education and there is a strong father presence and role ingrained in their cultures. The same is true within black African communities. The same traits are often missing within the lowest performing boys. Historic initiatives and curriculum revisions have also focused on improving outcomes for other groups.
Ben Bradley has done a lot of work the relatively poor performance of 'white working class boys' in education. They are the most under represented group in university education. Although some would argue other career paths are much better than chasing a university degree.
Therefore I agree that more men should be teaching in primary schools, especially a greater ethnic mix. The bigger question should be how do you attract and retain them? |
I don't think anyone would argue that having more male teachers at primary school level would be better from a gender balance point of view, part of which includes the potential for role modelling
I'd simply argue (as you've pointed out quite nicely) that the home influence in valuing education is just as, if not more important
Edit: i'd agree there needs to be a rebalancing between academic further education and skills-based training, and i think Covid will act as a catalyst for that
[Post edited 28 Oct 2020 13:13]
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| Whatever happened to "merit" on 14:00 - Oct 28 with 1382 views | 49thseason |
So we are agreed that family background is a major determinant of educational and therefore probably work related outcomes. Huge percentages of kids now have no father at home, many regard step fathers and "uncles" with a disdain that spoils new relationships that their mother might make.
Men generally are not given custody of their children by the courts so we have state systems that seem to be designed to impoverish the life chances of white British boys and increasingly girls.
The whole educational system has been biased against boys, there is practically no "technical" education, there is little expertise to teach coding or electronics. The regurgitation of information , readily available on any phone, is prized over 21st century job skills, there is no business education, little attempt to teach life skills like budgeting or following a recipe, nothing on job search skills or presentation skills. Little is taught about spreadsheets or databases. But woe betide,those who cannot remember a quotation from Macbeth or what an ox-bow lake is. Maths teachers flog the dead horse of triganometry and pythagoras but don't have room in the curriculum for data interpretation, the effect of high percentage rates on pay day loans or what inflation is. Hands up if you have any idea why quadratic equations are essential knowledge for every student!
So we have kids born into disfunctional families lacking role models, forced to go to single sex dominated schools without the opportunity to learn the practical, dirty hands , stuff that might introduce them into employment and a useful productive life.
How on earth did we get to this? |  | | |
| Whatever happened to "merit" on 15:13 - Oct 28 with 1316 views | DaleiLama |
| Whatever happened to "merit" on 14:00 - Oct 28 by 49thseason |
So we are agreed that family background is a major determinant of educational and therefore probably work related outcomes. Huge percentages of kids now have no father at home, many regard step fathers and "uncles" with a disdain that spoils new relationships that their mother might make.
Men generally are not given custody of their children by the courts so we have state systems that seem to be designed to impoverish the life chances of white British boys and increasingly girls.
The whole educational system has been biased against boys, there is practically no "technical" education, there is little expertise to teach coding or electronics. The regurgitation of information , readily available on any phone, is prized over 21st century job skills, there is no business education, little attempt to teach life skills like budgeting or following a recipe, nothing on job search skills or presentation skills. Little is taught about spreadsheets or databases. But woe betide,those who cannot remember a quotation from Macbeth or what an ox-bow lake is. Maths teachers flog the dead horse of triganometry and pythagoras but don't have room in the curriculum for data interpretation, the effect of high percentage rates on pay day loans or what inflation is. Hands up if you have any idea why quadratic equations are essential knowledge for every student!
So we have kids born into disfunctional families lacking role models, forced to go to single sex dominated schools without the opportunity to learn the practical, dirty hands , stuff that might introduce them into employment and a useful productive life.
How on earth did we get to this? |
https://www.mathsisfun.com/algebra/quadratic-equation-real-world.html
The sports bike model could easily be adapted to a pack of Vitamin D tablets if it helps? |  |
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| Whatever happened to "merit" on 15:37 - Oct 28 with 1292 views | TVOS1907 |
Or as preparation for those students who wish to study Maths to a higher level, where applied questions often require knowledge of more basic GCSE techniques and topics in order to progress.
Looks like I've wasted my time doing all that interest rate work as well, as it's apparently not on the curriculum. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Whatever happened to "merit" on 17:09 - Oct 28 with 1225 views | 49thseason |
| Whatever happened to "merit" on 15:37 - Oct 28 by TVOS1907 |
Or as preparation for those students who wish to study Maths to a higher level, where applied questions often require knowledge of more basic GCSE techniques and topics in order to progress.
Looks like I've wasted my time doing all that interest rate work as well, as it's apparently not on the curriculum. |
Thankyou for your service please dont take it personally, I am interested in finding out how much of what is taught is genuinely valuable . As a maths teacher, is the curriculum you have to teach to every student the one you would choose to teach given a free hand? Should there be a course for everyone, say "essential numeracy" and a different one for those with a genuine apptitude for mathematics?
Are those with a natural apptitude held back by the need to teach everyone the same stuff? And why do we boil down all those years of maths learning into a single exam that may not cover the bits that they have revised and may not be couched in language they may not entirely understand and yet it is used as a measure of future potential, might we not be better off with a series of tests of competency rather than a single exam?
I am aware that percentages are covered in KS3 programmes of study, to what extent can you relate them to real life situations within the time constraints? Do your students understand % inflation or % interest payments on bank accounts and their effects on budgets?
Quick final question, how much of your maths teaching can you relate to real life experiences that your students might know about or can easily envisage?. | | | |
| Whatever happened to on 17:13 - Oct 28 with 1217 views | judd |
It would have been useful to have been taught about each way round robins and Tote placepots [Post edited 28 Oct 2020 19:25]
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| Whatever happened to on 17:34 - Oct 28 with 1189 views | TVOS1907 |
| Whatever happened to "merit" on 17:09 - Oct 28 by 49thseason |
Thankyou for your service please dont take it personally, I am interested in finding out how much of what is taught is genuinely valuable . As a maths teacher, is the curriculum you have to teach to every student the one you would choose to teach given a free hand? Should there be a course for everyone, say "essential numeracy" and a different one for those with a genuine apptitude for mathematics?
Are those with a natural apptitude held back by the need to teach everyone the same stuff? And why do we boil down all those years of maths learning into a single exam that may not cover the bits that they have revised and may not be couched in language they may not entirely understand and yet it is used as a measure of future potential, might we not be better off with a series of tests of competency rather than a single exam?
I am aware that percentages are covered in KS3 programmes of study, to what extent can you relate them to real life situations within the time constraints? Do your students understand % inflation or % interest payments on bank accounts and their effects on budgets?
Quick final question, how much of your maths teaching can you relate to real life experiences that your students might know about or can easily envisage?. |
Everything is valuable for the majority of my pupils in that their ambitions tend to be university and graduate professions.
Whether they use things they have learned in school is a different matter, but a lot of it is a means to an end.
I was really good at French at school and enjoyed it a lot, but haven't spoken a word of it since I was 16. I haven't felt any detriment because of that and enjoyed it when I did it, but what it has given me is a sense of sentence construction, an understanding of tenses and the ability to work out what some French words may mean if I see them online, in print, etc.
It's difficult to answer a lot of your questions, because of the calibre of students I teach. While we have mixed ability, it isn't as wide as in other schools and as a result, we are more academic in what we do.
Is it for everyone? No, of course not, but I don't think it's practical to cater for everyone in our setting, given the many constraints we are placed under, such as timetabling, staff numbers, class sizes, resources, etc.
Those with a natural aptitude thrive, as there is always something extra or more advanced they can be given. When I was at school, we just had the classroom's textbooks; now, of course, there are unlimited resources online that we can access.
Not only that, those with a natural aptitude can be given advanced work and problem-solving type questions, where they have to draw on what they have learned lower down school. OK, they might just be solving something like a puzzle or challenge questions, but they are demonstrating their ability in a particular field, which could stand them in good stead in the future.
Why do we boil down all subjects into a single exam? You could extend that to professions like the police, accountancy and Law, to name just three, where promotions can rely on success in a test.
Percentages will always be related to real-life situations, although not initially. Learn the mechanics of the calculations first, then choose the relevant calculations depending on what the question is, which is when we get down to things like interest payments, etc.
We always try to relate what we do to real-life problems, if possible, while the new-style GCSEs, first examined in 2017, now have more applied-type questions where several different strands have to be pulled together to answer the question.
I'm long in the tooth regarding Maths teaching (and not ashamed to say, stuck in my ways), but I work with younger staff who have a lot more energy and ideas than I do. It's difficult to change my habits and methods of 30 years, but we all share and discuss things in passing and in regular meetings so that the pupils get the benefit of experience and ideas from both ends of the spectrum. [Post edited 28 Oct 2020 17:38]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Whatever happened to "merit" on 17:34 - Oct 28 with 1188 views | TVOS1907 |
| Whatever happened to on 17:13 - Oct 28 by judd |
It would have been useful to have been taught about each way round robins and Tote placepots [Post edited 28 Oct 2020 19:25]
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What have Bristol City got to do with it? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Whatever happened to "merit" on 17:43 - Oct 28 with 1176 views | D_Alien |
| Whatever happened to "merit" on 17:09 - Oct 28 by 49thseason |
Thankyou for your service please dont take it personally, I am interested in finding out how much of what is taught is genuinely valuable . As a maths teacher, is the curriculum you have to teach to every student the one you would choose to teach given a free hand? Should there be a course for everyone, say "essential numeracy" and a different one for those with a genuine apptitude for mathematics?
Are those with a natural apptitude held back by the need to teach everyone the same stuff? And why do we boil down all those years of maths learning into a single exam that may not cover the bits that they have revised and may not be couched in language they may not entirely understand and yet it is used as a measure of future potential, might we not be better off with a series of tests of competency rather than a single exam?
I am aware that percentages are covered in KS3 programmes of study, to what extent can you relate them to real life situations within the time constraints? Do your students understand % inflation or % interest payments on bank accounts and their effects on budgets?
Quick final question, how much of your maths teaching can you relate to real life experiences that your students might know about or can easily envisage?. |
But the same points could be raised about any subject. If all subjects taught at school were based on a utilitarian approach, the objective of allowing pupils to sample the possibilities of what a particular subject can offer at the higher levels wouldn't happen, to the huge disadvantage of national educational needs, especially in an increasingly knowledge-based economy
One of the key objectives at the higher levels is to facilitate critical thinking, and that means being able to digest a number of different theories and distinguish between those that are flawed and those which have greater merit. Taking the benefits of Vitamin D as an example, reading articles which purport to offer its consumption as a panacea against viral infection should be able to be balanced against the wider medical and scientific evidence which would indicate it's usefulness in helping maintain a healthy physiological response to infection whilst offering nothing to someone with adequate Vitamin D levels but otherwise prone to a particular virus | |
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| Whatever happened to "merit" on 17:44 - Oct 28 with 1171 views | D_Alien |
| Whatever happened to "merit" on 17:34 - Oct 28 by TVOS1907 |
What have Bristol City got to do with it? |
Or large handbags? | |
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| Whatever happened to on 20:27 - Oct 28 with 1042 views | BigDaveMyCock |
You do make me chuckle 49th. You raise the question of merit without any consideration whatsoever that it is a lot easier to prove your capabilities for a role if you are at the outset genuinely considered for that role. To switch from football to law, up until relatively recently, females were not woefully under represented in the legal profession because of a lack of ability. If that was the case then that would mean that women, somewhat miraculously, gradually began to become legally ‘capable’ in the 1970s/1980s and have become increasingly more capable ever since. Black people are still woefully underrepresented btw.
For someone who fancies themselves as a researcher and analyst, surely a look at the ratio of black players to black managers indicates that opportunity may just be an issue here. And by opportunity I mean being actually considered for roles on merit.
You then bemoan the education system for not giving people the right analytical tools. Brilliant. [Post edited 28 Oct 2020 20:36]
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