| Match thread: Southend A 14:18 - Sep 2 with 38220 views | 442Dale |
[Post edited 2 Sep 2017 14:42]
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| Match thread: Southend A on 23:34 - Sep 2 with 3072 views | D_Alien |
| Match thread: Southend A on 23:30 - Sep 2 by TalkingSutty |
You can't say that though it makes you anti Hendo/anti the Club. First viewing just screams red card and its been going on too long now, why make that challenge in that area of the pitch and stuff your team mates? Hendos got form for it, bury and Wigan away are two examples straight away, fouls commited in neutral areas of the pitch for no particular reason. |
And Oldham, same area of pitch, nowt in the passage of play to suggest danger, which at least Keane had to deal with
[Post edited 2 Sep 2017 23:36]
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| Match thread: Southend A on 23:41 - Sep 2 with 3045 views | TalkingSutty |
| Match thread: Southend A on 23:34 - Sep 2 by D_Alien |
And Oldham, same area of pitch, nowt in the passage of play to suggest danger, which at least Keane had to deal with
[Post edited 2 Sep 2017 23:36]
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Correct, all 3 local derbies and not even pressurised tackles. Captains lead by example and look after their team mates. Hendo isn't one, do we actually have a natural leader of men on the pitch? I don't see one. Hill picks his captain,so you can't blame the player. As a player i'm a big Hendo fan but he would never be a captain, he berates others for his own mistakes on the pitch, we've all seen that. [Post edited 2 Sep 2017 23:45]
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| Match thread: Southend A on 23:57 - Sep 2 with 2996 views | rochedale |
Was it really that bad? He lunged in from the side, not front or behind. Wasn't great but I can see an argument against the red. He looked as though he was going for the ball and could carry off the tackle without injury to the opposition player. Was the other player injured? |  |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 00:07 - Sep 3 with 2976 views | SuddenLad |
Whether the tackle deserved a red card is seemingly open to debate as the preceding comments show. However, it is entirely wrong to say that it was 'an intentional attempt to injure an opponent'. How can you know that ?? Claiming that a player has deliberately set out to maim an opponent is a step too far.
In the live commentary, there was genuine surprise that the red card was shown, with the comment that it was 'barely worthy of a yelllow'. Not everyone sees the incident to be as serious as others are making out. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Match thread: Southend A on 00:12 - Sep 3 with 2961 views | TalkingSutty |
| Match thread: Southend A on 23:57 - Sep 2 by rochedale |
Was it really that bad? He lunged in from the side, not front or behind. Wasn't great but I can see an argument against the red. He looked as though he was going for the ball and could carry off the tackle without injury to the opposition player. Was the other player injured? |
There isn't an exemption for lunging in from the side though, why would there be? | | | |
| Match thread: Southend A on 00:20 - Sep 3 with 2940 views | TalkingSutty |
| Match thread: Southend A on 00:07 - Sep 3 by SuddenLad |
Whether the tackle deserved a red card is seemingly open to debate as the preceding comments show. However, it is entirely wrong to say that it was 'an intentional attempt to injure an opponent'. How can you know that ?? Claiming that a player has deliberately set out to maim an opponent is a step too far.
In the live commentary, there was genuine surprise that the red card was shown, with the comment that it was 'barely worthy of a yelllow'. Not everyone sees the incident to be as serious as others are making out. |
The people commentating on any game are no more authority on the game than the average fan in the stand though. Watching the tackle on television replays tells you that comments from the commentary box are clearly wrong. 'Barely worthy of a yellow' brings the commentators credentials into question, replays show you that. | | | |
| Match thread: Southend A on 00:22 - Sep 3 with 2932 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match thread: Southend A on 00:07 - Sep 3 by SuddenLad |
Whether the tackle deserved a red card is seemingly open to debate as the preceding comments show. However, it is entirely wrong to say that it was 'an intentional attempt to injure an opponent'. How can you know that ?? Claiming that a player has deliberately set out to maim an opponent is a step too far.
In the live commentary, there was genuine surprise that the red card was shown, with the comment that it was 'barely worthy of a yelllow'. Not everyone sees the incident to be as serious as others are making out. |
Which live commentary, SL? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 00:30 - Sep 3 with 2915 views | rochedale |
| Match thread: Southend A on 00:12 - Sep 3 by TalkingSutty |
There isn't an exemption for lunging in from the side though, why would there be? |
Well my thoughts are... if you come in from behind, you cant see the ball, so it's reckless. If you come in high from the front, you can miss and follow through onto the player. From the side, you can see the ball, make the challenge, miss and cause no injury. Just my opinion. | |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 00:32 - Sep 3 with 2912 views | D_Alien |
| Match thread: Southend A on 00:07 - Sep 3 by SuddenLad |
Whether the tackle deserved a red card is seemingly open to debate as the preceding comments show. However, it is entirely wrong to say that it was 'an intentional attempt to injure an opponent'. How can you know that ?? Claiming that a player has deliberately set out to maim an opponent is a step too far.
In the live commentary, there was genuine surprise that the red card was shown, with the comment that it was 'barely worthy of a yelllow'. Not everyone sees the incident to be as serious as others are making out. |
Not an attempt to injure - which just leaves unnecessary, brainless, ill-disciplined, uncaptain-like, repeated and typical | |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 00:50 - Sep 3 with 2882 views | joecooke |
just watched it and olden days its a good challenge,this day and age then , its a yellow just for the studs up. |  |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 01:09 - Sep 3 with 2862 views | swiggy |
Well in Joecooke, can you imagine your namesake playing now? It's impossible to try and tackle a player more than a few feet away from you without taking both feet off the floor. It wasn't a good challenge but hendo did win the ball and the still photo shows him nowhere near doing any damage to the Southend player and only a one footed challenge.
Just as an aside watched the Rugby League Cup Final last week and what a great game, plenty of controversy but no acting by players and no trying to con the ref.
Tired of all the things going on around the club at the moment, can we please win a game and get on with it? Oh and get access to the bar at half time. Lol |  | | |
| Match thread: Southend A on 08:34 - Sep 3 with 2661 views | DaleiLama |
Way too early to judge the season yet with all the injuries and illnesses, but the fall-off in goal scoring to date is troubling. Hopefully when we get back to somewhere near full strength, we will return to more bulging nets and the feel-good factor associated with it. I fear there's still going to be some rust to knock off yet though before we get back to something like where we were. Hope I'm proved wrong. [Post edited 3 Sep 2017 9:38]
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| Match thread: Southend A on 09:14 - Sep 3 with 2583 views | SaxonDale |
Just to add a bit of context to the thoughts of people at the ground at the time. In the highlights you can see the Southend fans laughing and high-fiving each other (and the steward bizarrely) after the red is issued. Had their been a feeling that it was a tackle that has intended to harm or cause injury I doubt they'd have had a similar reaction. The referee also initially doesn't give it, it's the lineman.
Is that 5 red cards for Hendo at Rochdale now? How many avoidable? |  | | |
| Match thread: Southend A on 09:26 - Sep 3 with 2550 views | rochedale |
| Match thread: Southend A on 09:14 - Sep 3 by SaxonDale |
Just to add a bit of context to the thoughts of people at the ground at the time. In the highlights you can see the Southend fans laughing and high-fiving each other (and the steward bizarrely) after the red is issued. Had their been a feeling that it was a tackle that has intended to harm or cause injury I doubt they'd have had a similar reaction. The referee also initially doesn't give it, it's the lineman.
Is that 5 red cards for Hendo at Rochdale now? How many avoidable? |
Aren't all red cards avoidable? | |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 09:27 - Sep 3 with 2542 views | BartRowou |
Henderson reminds me of Paul Rutherford from Frankie Goes to Hollywood. He never seems to do anything significant but we're not the same without him.
For the record, having seen it once, I would say a strong yellow. |  |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 09:41 - Sep 3 with 2495 views | SaxonDale |
| Match thread: Southend A on 09:26 - Sep 3 by rochedale |
Aren't all red cards avoidable? |
Of course but some much more than others. The side effect of not going for the challenge (see Keane's red vs Pompey) can be much worse than yesterday's ever was (at worst opposition player has the ball 15 yards inside his own half) I can't think of a single Hendo red which couldn't be described as 'high-risk' and always for very little team value. | | | |
| Match thread: Southend A on 10:30 - Sep 3 with 2375 views | RAFCBLUE |
A very late "just got back" post, but I thought that we were immense yesterday in the circumstances of how the game played out and a record at Southend which is awful.
I think it's the best team performance I have seen this season without the ball and hard to criticise those trying to score when again we played without a full quota. Fair play to Phil Brown in that after the sending off he went for it to try and grab a goal which limited us to rare counter attacks.
The massive positive is two clean sheets on the bounce and a keeper and back five that looked very much a solid unit were the platform for not conceeding. Other than the penalty and one on target header, i can't think of any moment of real panic or chance for their attackers.
Moore likes to play the ball with his feet and despite being a left footed keeper moved the ball well. He has definite potential and the "USA" chants were great to hear, reminding me of Marcus Hahnemann played for us in 2001.
We've definetely learned from the Portsmouth game of how to play defensively with ten men. We've also learned how to make substitutes that take their time to get off, taking time over goal kicks and to frustrate the opposition who then reverted to the long ball to Nile Ranger. Cynical I know but it works for others and it worked for us.
Now to the ref. For a referee who had been on the league list and in Select Group 2 to not have control of the game was poor from him; he missed decisions for both sides which added to the frustration. He cautioned six, dismissed Henderson and gave a penalty for holding in the penalty area.
His inconsistency missed booking McNulty in the first five minutes for a late tackle, three Southend players and giving us a penalty for the same holding offence off a corner in the second half.
I'm all for application of the rules, but if you are going to give penalties, correctly under the law, for holding offences off corners then games of football will be very high scoring for a few weeks.
The Henderson sending off is silly from him; as others say he doesn't need to make that challenge in that area of that pitch in that way. Stephen Hendrie, the Southend player didn't receive treatment for that tackle from his physio and the Southend players professionally managed the situation well enough to ensure the referee makes the correct decision.
The video highlights don't show that after the penalty save and the Simon Cox slide in on Brendan Moore (Cox was cautioned, so the incorrect decision) that with the five Rochdale players who surround the referee that Henderson then berated the referee for around a minute; he didn't need to do that and that dialogue looked to be continuing as we and officials left the pitch at half time. Contrast that with how the Southend players in the video react for Henderson; very calm and professional - our reaction of surroudning the ref did not help us.
The midfield three of WIlliams (12), Kitchen and Cannon did well. I still think we must have got a signficant amount of money late for Jamie Allen since that is not how I envisage our three being for the rest of the season once Camps is fit again. Had Allen been here I think he would have started yesterday.
We named a bench yesterday that contains Collis and Barry-Murphy, neither of who we expect to play, two loan players who are long term not ours and two who are not match fit. Certainly thin on the ground in terms of players who can make an impact from the bench. Davies is not fully fit but put a shift in for the time he was on the pitch when asked and it was not the right environment to throw Gilliam into. We're very exposed at the minute with whatever is going on with illness and injuries it needs addressing.
Onwards and upwards to the Blackburn game which will be a test; they a better and fully fit squad and had this week off for internationals. It will be a difficult test next week but if we can keep a clean sheet and 11 on the field then we are definetely in with a chance. |  |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 10:30 - Sep 3 with 2374 views | macro |
Yesterday my initial thought on the red card was it was harsh but i'd like to see it again. On seeing it again a definite red. You can't justify a player starting a challenge off the ground like Henderson did. |  | | |
| Match thread: Southend A on 10:51 - Sep 3 with 2334 views | Daley_Lama |
It's very hard to tell what is a foul these days with seemingly every challenge resulting in one of the players ending up writhing in agony clutching his shin (always seems to be the shin, get better shin pads)
Ignoring ours, Oldham had a lad sent off yesterday for foot up. Both players did exactly the same, the Oldham player got the ball and Charlton player went down like a sack of the proverbial.
This was at 2-2 after Oldham had come back from 2-0.
Game decided by a player losing out on a tackle and feigning injury. |  |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 10:58 - Sep 3 with 2308 views | Daley_Lama |
As highlights role on.
Morecambe striker one footed tackle to get the ball, Accy player kicks the Morecambe player missing the ball then goes down injured.
Straight red. | |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 11:14 - Sep 3 with 2268 views | SuddenLad |
| Match thread: Southend A on 00:32 - Sep 3 by D_Alien |
Not an attempt to injure - which just leaves unnecessary, brainless, ill-disciplined, uncaptain-like, repeated and typical |
Certainly.
However, as I wasn't at the match, I had to rely on the radio summary (see my previous comments) . Additionally I have no idea what vantage point the commentator had from within the ground, to be able to pass his opinion on what he saw.
As we often see from other televised sports, what the eye initially 'sees' isn't necessarily what actually happened. Cricket and Rugby Union are perfect examples where dismissals and tries have been given (or not given) by a match official then rescinded (or given) after TV replays.
From the footage posted on here, it looks grim, but from a different camera angle there may well be a different interpretation. Even the ref wasn't sure and as has been previously stated, the consensus is that Hendo clearly won the ball. He went in with one leading foot, not the 'two-footed lunge'. He was certainly too quick for the Southend player.
The fact is, Hendo eventually got a red card. Some agree, others disagree, but claiming that it was malicious as some have done, is ridiculous.
Either way, we lose him for 3 games (at least) but all it all it was a magnificent point gained against the odds. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Match thread: Southend A on 11:38 - Sep 3 with 2224 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match thread: Southend A on 11:14 - Sep 3 by SuddenLad |
Certainly.
However, as I wasn't at the match, I had to rely on the radio summary (see my previous comments) . Additionally I have no idea what vantage point the commentator had from within the ground, to be able to pass his opinion on what he saw.
As we often see from other televised sports, what the eye initially 'sees' isn't necessarily what actually happened. Cricket and Rugby Union are perfect examples where dismissals and tries have been given (or not given) by a match official then rescinded (or given) after TV replays.
From the footage posted on here, it looks grim, but from a different camera angle there may well be a different interpretation. Even the ref wasn't sure and as has been previously stated, the consensus is that Hendo clearly won the ball. He went in with one leading foot, not the 'two-footed lunge'. He was certainly too quick for the Southend player.
The fact is, Hendo eventually got a red card. Some agree, others disagree, but claiming that it was malicious as some have done, is ridiculous.
Either way, we lose him for 3 games (at least) but all it all it was a magnificent point gained against the odds. |
I feel we have a problem in accepting that the laws of the game apply to us as much as every other team.
You can interpret 'we' how you want... | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 11:48 - Sep 3 with 2198 views | burton_dale |
| Match thread: Southend A on 11:38 - Sep 3 by TVOS1907 |
I feel we have a problem in accepting that the laws of the game apply to us as much as every other team.
You can interpret 'we' how you want... |
Every fan is going to have a level as bias, anything up to completely deluded. Best way of looking at it, as others have said, is think how we would react on the receiving end of a tackle like that. If a Southend player had gone in like that I would have been calling for a red, whether our player rolled around on the floor, jumped straight up, or was actually hurt. |  | | |
| Match thread: Southend A on 11:52 - Sep 3 with 2186 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match thread: Southend A on 11:48 - Sep 3 by burton_dale |
Every fan is going to have a level as bias, anything up to completely deluded. Best way of looking at it, as others have said, is think how we would react on the receiving end of a tackle like that. If a Southend player had gone in like that I would have been calling for a red, whether our player rolled around on the floor, jumped straight up, or was actually hurt. |
Exactly. Good post. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match thread: Southend A on 12:04 - Sep 3 with 2162 views | SuddenLad |
| Match thread: Southend A on 11:38 - Sep 3 by TVOS1907 |
I feel we have a problem in accepting that the laws of the game apply to us as much as every other team.
You can interpret 'we' how you want... |
My version of "We" is as in spectators.
I have no problem with the laws of the game. The problem lies in the implementation of those laws and the consistency, or lack of, that the officials so frequently display.
I saw the referees' display yesterday described (by someone at the ground) as 'pisspotical'. The radio commentator described the referee as 'a homer' and some of his decisions as 'mystifying'.
The last time I listened to a live Dale match commentary on 'Matey FM' was when Mike Brookes was in charge of the microphone. No idea who yesterdays' commentator was, but he seemed pretty fair in his summations. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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