| Unbelievable these Tories 06:09 - May 1 with 6627 views | builthjack |
So, after all the drama, and over half a billion spent, the Tories have lost over 60% of the people that they were deporting to Rwanda.
Only about 2000 of the 5700 can still be traced. The rest are missing.
What a shower of shite again. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 08:25 - May 2 with 944 views | jackrmee |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 07:31 - May 2 by Dr_Winston |
Your last sentence is basically the opening scene of Idiocracy, and it's frighteningly close to the truth.
There has been the predictable outrage from the predictable sources to the Governments plans to reform PIP, but it is, at heart, something that probably does need looking at. I do question whether someone who suffers from mental health issues needs extra funding. More to the point, in my experience, the worst thing you can do for people with poor mental health is pay them to sit at home all day.
Covid saw an explosion in the cases of people reporting poor mental health. Quite clearly as a direct result of the lockdown mandates, especially amongst the young. Humans are social creatures. They need to be outdoors and with other people. Forcing or enabling them to do the opposite has done a tremendous amount of damage. [Post edited 2 May 8:03]
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People on PIP, don’t use it to stay at home all day.
It’s for their independence. To go places and do stuff. |  |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 08:28 - May 2 with 940 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 16:07 - May 1 by builthjack |
If they were going to deport them, surely they should know where they are. Thick as dogshite.
Yet you and a couple of others agree. Blimey. |
Unfortunately you can't lock them up until they are deported they can travel freely anywhere I Uk or even into the ROI. Surely even you can understand that.
Noticed you dodged the question about what are Starmer's plan to deal with them. |  |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 08:34 - May 2 with 939 views | Dr_Winston |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 08:25 - May 2 by jackrmee |
People on PIP, don’t use it to stay at home all day.
It’s for their independence. To go places and do stuff. |
In some cases yes. Mobility is a big one. In a lot of cases, most definitely not.
I deal with cases on a daily basis of people in receipt of PIP who barely ever leave the house. I've seen people who should get the full rate of it turned down, I've seen obvious malingerers awarded everything. I've seen most things in between.
It's a system not fit for purpose that locks some people into a cycle of despair, enables some to live a life of comfort on the taxpayer and denies others what they should be getting. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 08:50 - May 2 with 928 views | raynor94 |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 08:25 - May 2 by jackrmee |
People on PIP, don’t use it to stay at home all day.
It’s for their independence. To go places and do stuff. |
That's a very naive statement, no doubt there are a lot of genuine claimants, but there's a vast amount living the life of Riley on it |  |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 09:51 - May 2 with 875 views | Boundy |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 17:30 - May 1 by bennytheblue |
If it’s anything like Tony Blair’s policy it will be plane fulls coming this way for free not being shipped out as he attempted to De-Tory the country knowing that any new immigrants coming in would always vote for them. |
That's the very reason why we're in the state we're in now, Blair/Browns open door policy and those let in aren't going to bite the hand that fed /feeds them | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 10:04 - May 2 with 862 views | majorraglan |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 09:51 - May 2 by Boundy |
That's the very reason why we're in the state we're in now, Blair/Browns open door policy and those let in aren't going to bite the hand that fed /feeds them |
The very reason we’re in the mess we’re in is more attributable to the current government than anything that happened under Blair.
The changes to immigration law under Blair worked both ways, lots of Britons were able to move to live abroad while lots of Eastern Europeans made similar moves to come here and work, that said immigration under Blair was nowhere near the level we’ve seen under the conservatives between 2010 and 2024, last year we had a 1.25m new arrivals in the UK. | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 10:24 - May 2 with 854 views | controversial_jack |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 10:04 - May 2 by majorraglan |
The very reason we’re in the mess we’re in is more attributable to the current government than anything that happened under Blair.
The changes to immigration law under Blair worked both ways, lots of Britons were able to move to live abroad while lots of Eastern Europeans made similar moves to come here and work, that said immigration under Blair was nowhere near the level we’ve seen under the conservatives between 2010 and 2024, last year we had a 1.25m new arrivals in the UK. |
Exactly, this lot has had close to 15 years to do something about it and they haven't, it's got worse. | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 10:25 - May 2 with 856 views | Boundy |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 10:04 - May 2 by majorraglan |
The very reason we’re in the mess we’re in is more attributable to the current government than anything that happened under Blair.
The changes to immigration law under Blair worked both ways, lots of Britons were able to move to live abroad while lots of Eastern Europeans made similar moves to come here and work, that said immigration under Blair was nowhere near the level we’ve seen under the conservatives between 2010 and 2024, last year we had a 1.25m new arrivals in the UK. |
It was a deliberate policy by Labour from 1997 to increase the population of the UK ,in fact immigration was his chief focus, now whether the same can be said under the current regime can be debated but the fact remain that our population grew until 8.3% of this country were born overseas. Not sure what you mean about it working both ways as we were still in the EU then as a such the free movement of persons existed
Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million immigrant.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigration-legacy-tony-blair/ | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 11:47 - May 2 with 825 views | AnotherJohn |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 10:25 - May 2 by Boundy |
It was a deliberate policy by Labour from 1997 to increase the population of the UK ,in fact immigration was his chief focus, now whether the same can be said under the current regime can be debated but the fact remain that our population grew until 8.3% of this country were born overseas. Not sure what you mean about it working both ways as we were still in the EU then as a such the free movement of persons existed
Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million immigrant.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigration-legacy-tony-blair/ |
I agree that it is wrong to pin the whole blame only on the present government, even though their record is abysmal. As MajorR acknowledged above, the influx from the central and eastern European A8 countries in 2004 was significant, and many would say that was a sea change moment.
https://theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-
Today's announcement from Labour about allowing asylum claims for all already in the UK brought to mind that 2019 party conference resolution on extending free movement. If Labour get in for one or even two terms, I fear immigration will rocket even higher and we will really notice the difference. | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 13:53 - May 2 with 788 views | Boundy |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 11:47 - May 2 by AnotherJohn |
I agree that it is wrong to pin the whole blame only on the present government, even though their record is abysmal. As MajorR acknowledged above, the influx from the central and eastern European A8 countries in 2004 was significant, and many would say that was a sea change moment.
https://theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-
Today's announcement from Labour about allowing asylum claims for all already in the UK brought to mind that 2019 party conference resolution on extending free movement. If Labour get in for one or even two terms, I fear immigration will rocket even higher and we will really notice the difference. |
The original policies by Blair set the scene to what we have today, all those estimated 3 million who came in under Blair now have family and friends all pleading their cases , he did that with no thought of the consequences many of which we see today, not forgetting the fact that he lied and took us into an illegal war which is still being felt by many today .All in the name of power. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 14:42 - May 2 with 764 views | majorraglan |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 10:25 - May 2 by Boundy |
It was a deliberate policy by Labour from 1997 to increase the population of the UK ,in fact immigration was his chief focus, now whether the same can be said under the current regime can be debated but the fact remain that our population grew until 8.3% of this country were born overseas. Not sure what you mean about it working both ways as we were still in the EU then as a such the free movement of persons existed
Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million immigrant.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigration-legacy-tony-blair/ |
A significant proportion of the immigration during the Blair years was linked to freedom of movement courtesy of the Treaty of Maastricht, when the EU expanded in 2004, Britain (Blair) made the mistake of underestimating the number of people who would come to the U.K. and failed to apply restrictions to limit numbers - freedom of movement was the catalyst to the surging immigration numbers.
Reference to working both ways was the ability of British citizens to work from and move abroad, or retire abroad.
It’s been a deliberate policy of the current government and its Conservative predecessors to increase immigration. Just look at the net increase in population over the past 14 years - for 11 of the past 14 years it’s been higher under the Conservatives than it was under Labour, 1 of the 3 years was due to Covid and the other 2 years the difference was less than 5,000. Our population has increased by over 5 million in the last 14 years.
The last 2 years have seen the highest net immigration numbers ever - it’s undeniable.
The government push the argument for migration because it increases the working age population, is supposed to increase the tax take etc as we’ve got an aging population and more bills to pay address the skills gap etc. Others will argue immigration keeps wages down, erodes living standards etc.
Labour most certainly loosened the rules and allowed more people in, but immigration is now off the scale compared to what it was. | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 17:17 - May 2 with 720 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 14:42 - May 2 by majorraglan |
A significant proportion of the immigration during the Blair years was linked to freedom of movement courtesy of the Treaty of Maastricht, when the EU expanded in 2004, Britain (Blair) made the mistake of underestimating the number of people who would come to the U.K. and failed to apply restrictions to limit numbers - freedom of movement was the catalyst to the surging immigration numbers.
Reference to working both ways was the ability of British citizens to work from and move abroad, or retire abroad.
It’s been a deliberate policy of the current government and its Conservative predecessors to increase immigration. Just look at the net increase in population over the past 14 years - for 11 of the past 14 years it’s been higher under the Conservatives than it was under Labour, 1 of the 3 years was due to Covid and the other 2 years the difference was less than 5,000. Our population has increased by over 5 million in the last 14 years.
The last 2 years have seen the highest net immigration numbers ever - it’s undeniable.
The government push the argument for migration because it increases the working age population, is supposed to increase the tax take etc as we’ve got an aging population and more bills to pay address the skills gap etc. Others will argue immigration keeps wages down, erodes living standards etc.
Labour most certainly loosened the rules and allowed more people in, but immigration is now off the scale compared to what it was. |
It only increases the working age population short term though. Long term it massively increases the age of people who need care and hospital beds.
Another example of the idiotic short-termism of our parliamentary cycle where the never ending chase for growth figures trumps everything else and to hell with whatever the long term consequences are. |  |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 17:32 - May 2 with 702 views | majorraglan |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 13:53 - May 2 by Boundy |
The original policies by Blair set the scene to what we have today, all those estimated 3 million who came in under Blair now have family and friends all pleading their cases , he did that with no thought of the consequences many of which we see today, not forgetting the fact that he lied and took us into an illegal war which is still being felt by many today .All in the name of power. |
I’ve no time for Blair.
You mention the 3 million who’ve come in - a significant proportion of whom would have come here under the EU freedom of movement rules which were incorporated in to the Treaty of Maastricht signed by Conservative ministers Douglas Hurd and Francis Maude.
It’s 17 years since Blair finished as PM and 14 since Labour left power. What have our current government (and its previous incarnations under Cameron, May, Johnson and Truss) done about it? We’ve had Brexit, but since we’ve taken control back immigration has increased to records we’ve never seen before. If you look at the figures, EU nationals have been leaving the U.K. and during the year ending June 2023 the largest contingents of immigrants were India (253,000) Nigeria (141,000) China (89,000) Pakistan (55,000) and Ukraine (35,000).
As I’ve said I’ve no time for Blair, but let’s not blame the guy when others are equally or more responsible. | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 18:20 - May 2 with 673 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 17:32 - May 2 by majorraglan |
I’ve no time for Blair.
You mention the 3 million who’ve come in - a significant proportion of whom would have come here under the EU freedom of movement rules which were incorporated in to the Treaty of Maastricht signed by Conservative ministers Douglas Hurd and Francis Maude.
It’s 17 years since Blair finished as PM and 14 since Labour left power. What have our current government (and its previous incarnations under Cameron, May, Johnson and Truss) done about it? We’ve had Brexit, but since we’ve taken control back immigration has increased to records we’ve never seen before. If you look at the figures, EU nationals have been leaving the U.K. and during the year ending June 2023 the largest contingents of immigrants were India (253,000) Nigeria (141,000) China (89,000) Pakistan (55,000) and Ukraine (35,000).
As I’ve said I’ve no time for Blair, but let’s not blame the guy when others are equally or more responsible. |
You're right of course. Blair is responsible for many things but not anything these Tories have done. Even things he did which they didn't change aren't his responsibility any more.
This Tory shiteshow is a terrible government, useless, corrupt, self serving, greedy and deceitful. In my opinion.
Can UK politics sink any lower, all 4 of our governments are a complete mess. | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 18:50 - May 2 with 663 views | max936 |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 10:04 - May 2 by majorraglan |
The very reason we’re in the mess we’re in is more attributable to the current government than anything that happened under Blair.
The changes to immigration law under Blair worked both ways, lots of Britons were able to move to live abroad while lots of Eastern Europeans made similar moves to come here and work, that said immigration under Blair was nowhere near the level we’ve seen under the conservatives between 2010 and 2024, last year we had a 1.25m new arrivals in the UK. |
Over 800 arrived in boats yesterday apparently  |  |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 19:12 - May 2 with 656 views | Gwyn737 |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 18:20 - May 2 by SullutaCreturned |
You're right of course. Blair is responsible for many things but not anything these Tories have done. Even things he did which they didn't change aren't his responsibility any more.
This Tory shiteshow is a terrible government, useless, corrupt, self serving, greedy and deceitful. In my opinion.
Can UK politics sink any lower, all 4 of our governments are a complete mess. |
Trouble is Cat, politicians have pretty much always been corrupt.
Even many people in Wales’ political hero, David Lloyd George was a top level philanderer and would flog you a peerage as soon as look at you.
The difference with the post 2019 Tories is they’re completely useless.
I know this will annoy many on here, but a lot of the reason we have this shower is Brexit.
I still think it was a bad idea. So did the majority of politicians. The only way the Tories could ‘get Brexit done’ was to get rid of their moderate MPs and parachute in the idiots.
The public have woken up to this now and those 2019 incumbents are going to be booted out and the Tory party decimated.
The Labour Party have been able to move to the centre and they’re going to clean up.
It does make for a strong political system.
Edit:
And with perfect timing there’s this bloke. Thought Brexit was a bad idea until he worked out he could be prime minister. He was voted in to get it done.
[Post edited 2 May 19:55]
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 20:33 - May 2 with 612 views | JumpingJackFlash |
To be fair, everyone knows that the laws of the land have a special clause in them which says they don't apply to Boris. | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 21:43 - May 2 with 578 views | majorraglan |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 19:12 - May 2 by Gwyn737 |
Trouble is Cat, politicians have pretty much always been corrupt.
Even many people in Wales’ political hero, David Lloyd George was a top level philanderer and would flog you a peerage as soon as look at you.
The difference with the post 2019 Tories is they’re completely useless.
I know this will annoy many on here, but a lot of the reason we have this shower is Brexit.
I still think it was a bad idea. So did the majority of politicians. The only way the Tories could ‘get Brexit done’ was to get rid of their moderate MPs and parachute in the idiots.
The public have woken up to this now and those 2019 incumbents are going to be booted out and the Tory party decimated.
The Labour Party have been able to move to the centre and they’re going to clean up.
It does make for a strong political system.
Edit:
And with perfect timing there’s this bloke. Thought Brexit was a bad idea until he worked out he could be prime minister. He was voted in to get it done.
[Post edited 2 May 19:55]
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I’d like to say that’s unbelievable, but sadly it isn’t. Johnson is a shambles and to think he was our Prime Minister. Mental.
The legislation will disenfranchise thousands of voters. [Post edited 2 May 21:56]
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 23:51 - May 2 with 513 views | majorraglan |
Most European countries also have national identity cards which people can produce as and when required including to vote, we don’t have a national identity card here in the U.K. which alerts the dynamic. | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 07:06 - May 3 with 484 views | AnotherJohn |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 23:51 - May 2 by majorraglan |
Most European countries also have national identity cards which people can produce as and when required including to vote, we don’t have a national identity card here in the U.K. which alerts the dynamic. |
Indeed. And I imagine that if the UK announced the introduction of such an mandatory ID card, critics would probably argue that that too disenfranchised voters who for one reason or another were not able or willing to produce it. We are presently a bit of an OECD outlier with that recent reform closing the gap a little. Has it really been the case that thousands were disenfranchised in N. Ireland because they had to produce ID to vote? | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 07:34 - May 3 with 476 views | jackrmee |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 08:34 - May 2 by Dr_Winston |
In some cases yes. Mobility is a big one. In a lot of cases, most definitely not.
I deal with cases on a daily basis of people in receipt of PIP who barely ever leave the house. I've seen people who should get the full rate of it turned down, I've seen obvious malingerers awarded everything. I've seen most things in between.
It's a system not fit for purpose that locks some people into a cycle of despair, enables some to live a life of comfort on the taxpayer and denies others what they should be getting. |
I agree that a some people on PIP don’t spend it wisely and some use it for drugs etc, but even those people, most of them should be eligible due to their condition, however they may not totally get that.
A lot of homeless people get PIP, and some may not even know why, but have been supported to apply.
Just because someone doesn’t use their allowance/award correctly, doesn’t mean they are not eligible or that they shouldn’t get it.
They may want to leave the house but not have much support.
Either way, just because they choose not to leave the house, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get the money. Maybe they need support with other things to enable them to leave the house or not spend it on drugs?
It’s not easy to get PIP, and most applicants will need to go to tribunal.
This is not fun and most people who are not eligible won’t take it that far.
The amount of people who falsely claim PIP is minimal, compared to those who need it and are eligible, but cannot get it, due to the red tape and obstacle filled application process.
I do agree that it’s a messed up system.
But it’s much more difficult for everyone than you make out | |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 07:37 - May 3 with 474 views | jackrmee |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 08:50 - May 2 by raynor94 |
That's a very naive statement, no doubt there are a lot of genuine claimants, but there's a vast amount living the life of Riley on it |
Some people, yes.
But the “vast majority” is just a fabrication that they like to chuck in the papers as propaganda, in order for us to all hate each other.
The VAST majority of benefit claimants are actually legit. And the VAST majority of those are working full time, with such terrible wages, they have to claim benefits like tax credits etc.
The amount of fraudulent benefit claims make up something like 0.1% | |
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| Unbelievable these Tories on 11:52 - May 3 with 388 views | Gwyn737 |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 23:51 - May 2 by majorraglan |
Most European countries also have national identity cards which people can produce as and when required including to vote, we don’t have a national identity card here in the U.K. which alerts the dynamic. |
In principle I'm against national ID cards - as we're a lot of centerist across the main parties.
The one thing that may convince me is if we had an issue wioth widespread voter fraud.
But we don't, so I'm not.
I am concerend the current forms of acceptable ID dicriminated against younger would be voters. | | | |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 12:35 - May 3 with 381 views | onehunglow |
| Unbelievable these Tories on 11:52 - May 3 by Gwyn737 |
In principle I'm against national ID cards - as we're a lot of centerist across the main parties.
The one thing that may convince me is if we had an issue wioth widespread voter fraud.
But we don't, so I'm not.
I am concerend the current forms of acceptable ID dicriminated against younger would be voters. |
We all have to produce ID in many cases of life
Just what is wrong with carrying personal ID
It would or should stop the issues Police have with IDs
I say should but we are warped with our views on ID cards
Funnily enough,most European countries have no problems in this regard | |
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Johnson is a buffoon, but this policy just copied what happens in the EU.