| What has happened to football? 13:42 - Feb 17 with 4280 views | scottishjack |
First off, this isn't a pop at Garry Monk, the club, or anyone in particular... but when did everything change?
As soon as I saw the line up yesterday, I accepted that we were bowing out of the FA cup, the fact that the lads selected played fairly well eased a bit of the gloom, and in fairness, we could just as easily lost 3-1 at Goodison with our strongest line up.
It was the 5th round of the cup, a chance to reach the 1/4 finals, and we rested players because making sure we finish 17th or higher in the league is far more important? Sorry, but not in my eyes. It isn't just us, many fans at other clubs accept that going out of the cup isn't the end of the world as long as they stay in the Prem? It's all upside down.
I appreciate what being in the Premier league has done for us financially, our board have been very wise with that money, meaning we have new training facilities and a healthy club, our profile in the world of footie has rocketed, it's all good, but when finishing outside the bottom 3, season after season is our ambition, then I'm sorry, but what's the point? |  | | |  |
| What has happened to football? on 13:43 - Feb 17 with 2780 views | JBT95 |
The resting players thing was for the Europa League not Premier League. |  | | |
| What has happened to football? on 13:47 - Feb 17 with 2759 views | yescomeon |
Think we all know the answer is money. |  |
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| What has happened to football? on 13:48 - Feb 17 with 2755 views | scottishjack |
| What has happened to football? on 13:43 - Feb 17 by JBT95 |
The resting players thing was for the Europa League not Premier League. |
So we rested our players from one cup to make sure they are fit for the other one?
I wouldn't have minded if we had a go at both the FA cup and the Europa to be honest.
Like I said, it isn't just us, other teams and their fans see the FA Cup as a distraction, I just find that quite sad. | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 14:12 - Feb 17 with 2683 views | gibs0n |
we play FA every year. So playing the best 11 in the Euro makes sense. |  | | |
| What has happened to football? on 14:26 - Feb 17 with 2633 views | oldcob |
| What has happened to football? on 13:47 - Feb 17 by yescomeon |
Think we all know the answer is money. |
Fair enough, but remember ten or eleven years ago when we were struggling without it? At least we are able to make the choice now. No money leaves you with no option. Remember last time we were relegated? We went into free fall. Wouldn't want those days back. Ideals are fine but sometimes we have to put our practical heads on. |  | | |
| What has happened to football? on 14:28 - Feb 17 with 2626 views | Catullus |
I can tell you but you already know. MONEY happened to football. back in the 70's when we rose to the top, we could compete with the biggest clubs. The had more money than us then too, but the difference is minimal compared with today.
The moment we reached the Premier league, all our priorities changed. Staying up is the holy grail now. And even though the changes were with the EL in mind, that is till true.
The longer we stay up, the stronger we grow, hopefully. Although I disagree our priority is just avoiding the bottom 3. I think the board look to finish as high as possible. | |
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| What has happened to football? on 14:34 - Feb 17 with 2574 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| What has happened to football? on 14:28 - Feb 17 by Catullus |
I can tell you but you already know. MONEY happened to football. back in the 70's when we rose to the top, we could compete with the biggest clubs. The had more money than us then too, but the difference is minimal compared with today.
The moment we reached the Premier league, all our priorities changed. Staying up is the holy grail now. And even though the changes were with the EL in mind, that is till true.
The longer we stay up, the stronger we grow, hopefully. Although I disagree our priority is just avoiding the bottom 3. I think the board look to finish as high as possible. |
Yes but what baffles me is that in my mind I have no doubt we'll survive, even if we'd got to both FA and EL finals. This is either a lack of faith (not yesterday's team selection but the unwillingness to put Bony on for the last 30 when we looked like we could win) or complete over caution |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| What has happened to football? on 14:35 - Feb 17 with 2574 views | scottishjack |
I'm probably still grumbling about yesterday...and yes I know how important staying in the Prem is financially, I just probably long for the days where a cup tie at Everton in the 5th round would be something to get excited about. | | | |
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| What has happened to football? on 14:37 - Feb 17 with 2566 views | the_oracle |
I've been asking myself the same question for some time.
Posts on putting out a weakened side for the cup game against Everton (and Bolton a few years back) seem to have split the posters on this message board.
Many seem to have bought into the idea that premier league survival is the be all and end all. Survival in the premier league is used to the detriment of the cup competitions. Put out a weakened side to preserve our status in the top division. Others talk about using PL money for building for the future, but does anyone really think we can realistically challenge Man U City, Chelsea etc in the long term?
Does the club exist for the fans or does the club exist solely to use the PL money provide income for players, staff and board? Is it right that the team is merely there for survival, and is it enough for the supporters to watch Chelsea Arsenal Man City etc each week to forgo success?
Why does the fan go? Is it for success? If so then realistically the FA cup and League cup are the two opportunities for success, as winning the league is not a viable option. If the club is interested in success then shouldn’t the side put out by the manager be the one that has the highest chance of winning? Fans eat up success, but without success will the fan keep going back to watch a club whose only ambition is to stay up?
Some call me a romantic in that I dream of my team winning things. Clubs are not remembered for finishing 15 16 or 17 in the premiership .We all know people in Swansea who have supported Man U Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool etc because they like success. How many locals support teams like Notts County or Carlisle? The reason for support is success!
Those of us old enough will remember Swindon (at the Vetch it was a terribly wet day and I think a 1-1 draw with Grimsby and I remember that because of the cup shock!) and Don Rodgers beating Arsenal in the league cup, Coventry Wimbledon and more recently Wigan winning the fa cup. If I say 1927 we all know what that means .How many remember a 0-0 draw on a wet Tuesday at any ground mid-season? Will we be remembering this week’s 1-1 at Stoke in 30 years’ time or the win over Man U in the third round? We all remember cup wins over West Ham, Sheffield, the two legs against Chelsea and so on.
Birmingham fans after the league cup win a few years ago said “A day, like no other in the club’s history, to treasure.” The websites say they would not have swapped the cup win for survival. The same applies to many Wigan fans after last season’s win.
Other days to remember apart from that day in 2003 include cup finals at Wembley and Cardiff, the Forest playoff semi and Wembley (both knock out games like the cups don’t forget). Most games in the collective memory are the big ones, the one offs.
So do we just want survival, the annual dog fight against relegation or do we want that moment that will live in footballs memory forever? Or is it simply enough to have a future of financial stability for the club. And who really benefits from that, the fan, or the player earning 40 k a week?
Danny Blanchflower said “that the game must be about the glory”. For fans, cup runs are a day out and the possibility of a lifetime of memories. For footballers, it does not get more iconic that to win a cup final. Folklore is made in Cups. The FA Cup is part of the fabric of English life.
I’d take a cup win anytime over 10 seasons of survival. | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 14:38 - Feb 17 with 2562 views | monmouth |
I liked MLs attitude to cups. Without that attitude we would have probably bowed out of the CO cup last season with a reserve team whimper.
Fact is though, I reckon that Europa or no Europa we would have seen the first team yesterday if we had another 6-10 league points. So the key to a good cup run is get league safety early, or get an easier draw. |  |
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| What has happened to football? on 14:55 - Feb 17 with 2509 views | 2face |
If a midtable team qualifies for Europa League, statistically it's a dead cert that the manager will be sacked the following year. If I were a manager, I would seriously question whether it was in my own personal interest to win a cup. | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 15:03 - Feb 17 with 2482 views | yescomeon |
For me personally the romantic game that I will remember in years to come is more likely to be the Napoli games not the Everton game, even were we to win. We knocked out Utd that's a game to remember. The FA cup is every year. | |
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| What has happened to football? on 15:12 - Feb 17 with 2456 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| What has happened to football? on 14:37 - Feb 17 by the_oracle |
I've been asking myself the same question for some time.
Posts on putting out a weakened side for the cup game against Everton (and Bolton a few years back) seem to have split the posters on this message board.
Many seem to have bought into the idea that premier league survival is the be all and end all. Survival in the premier league is used to the detriment of the cup competitions. Put out a weakened side to preserve our status in the top division. Others talk about using PL money for building for the future, but does anyone really think we can realistically challenge Man U City, Chelsea etc in the long term?
Does the club exist for the fans or does the club exist solely to use the PL money provide income for players, staff and board? Is it right that the team is merely there for survival, and is it enough for the supporters to watch Chelsea Arsenal Man City etc each week to forgo success?
Why does the fan go? Is it for success? If so then realistically the FA cup and League cup are the two opportunities for success, as winning the league is not a viable option. If the club is interested in success then shouldn’t the side put out by the manager be the one that has the highest chance of winning? Fans eat up success, but without success will the fan keep going back to watch a club whose only ambition is to stay up?
Some call me a romantic in that I dream of my team winning things. Clubs are not remembered for finishing 15 16 or 17 in the premiership .We all know people in Swansea who have supported Man U Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool etc because they like success. How many locals support teams like Notts County or Carlisle? The reason for support is success!
Those of us old enough will remember Swindon (at the Vetch it was a terribly wet day and I think a 1-1 draw with Grimsby and I remember that because of the cup shock!) and Don Rodgers beating Arsenal in the league cup, Coventry Wimbledon and more recently Wigan winning the fa cup. If I say 1927 we all know what that means .How many remember a 0-0 draw on a wet Tuesday at any ground mid-season? Will we be remembering this week’s 1-1 at Stoke in 30 years’ time or the win over Man U in the third round? We all remember cup wins over West Ham, Sheffield, the two legs against Chelsea and so on.
Birmingham fans after the league cup win a few years ago said “A day, like no other in the club’s history, to treasure.” The websites say they would not have swapped the cup win for survival. The same applies to many Wigan fans after last season’s win.
Other days to remember apart from that day in 2003 include cup finals at Wembley and Cardiff, the Forest playoff semi and Wembley (both knock out games like the cups don’t forget). Most games in the collective memory are the big ones, the one offs.
So do we just want survival, the annual dog fight against relegation or do we want that moment that will live in footballs memory forever? Or is it simply enough to have a future of financial stability for the club. And who really benefits from that, the fan, or the player earning 40 k a week?
Danny Blanchflower said “that the game must be about the glory”. For fans, cup runs are a day out and the possibility of a lifetime of memories. For footballers, it does not get more iconic that to win a cup final. Folklore is made in Cups. The FA Cup is part of the fabric of English life.
I’d take a cup win anytime over 10 seasons of survival. |
The quandary summed up quite beautifully. Mid table or lower PL drudgery or hitting one of the highest highs in world football. Fuktifino | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| What has happened to football? on 15:20 - Feb 17 with 2436 views | perchrockjack |
| What has happened to football? on 14:28 - Feb 17 by Catullus |
I can tell you but you already know. MONEY happened to football. back in the 70's when we rose to the top, we could compete with the biggest clubs. The had more money than us then too, but the difference is minimal compared with today.
The moment we reached the Premier league, all our priorities changed. Staying up is the holy grail now. And even though the changes were with the EL in mind, that is till true.
The longer we stay up, the stronger we grow, hopefully. Although I disagree our priority is just avoiding the bottom 3. I think the board look to finish as high as possible. |
on the money yet again. Cup wins are just that and sorry but doubt many Pie Eaters would swop the cup win for stay in the Prem.The club,our club must grow surely although I see some would be quite happy to go to Cheltenham and the likes and to stand up ,haver a pint/pie and be back home well in time for whateverthe feck is on telly that night.
I want to see our modest club grow, I want to see plastic manure kid fans turn to follow their own team and Ive no objection for all kids in the likes of Neath Aberystwyth coming to see us as their team. I want to see my team my city fronting up with the big city boys. | |
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| What has happened to football? on 15:36 - Feb 17 with 2408 views | Oldjack |
Now if id been a Southampton fan i'd have been livid at fielding a weaken team our circumstances are very much different to theirs |  |
| Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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| What has happened to football? on 15:42 - Feb 17 with 2393 views | scottishjack |
| What has happened to football? on 15:36 - Feb 17 by Oldjack |
Now if id been a Southampton fan i'd have been livid at fielding a weaken team our circumstances are very much different to theirs |
And yet Sunderland seem to be going for it with the cups this year! | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 16:39 - Feb 17 with 2323 views | NOTRAC |
But was there a need for so many changes?
I'm sorry but this squad system idea that changes have to be made continually is a load of old Bollux for me.Has it helped us this year? We have had more injuries than ever.We have lost matches in the league simply because we have not played our best side.Continuity amongst players has been lost and that doesn't help us to play our best football.
Teams in the second division play eight more matches than ourselves.How many full games has Bony played this year that he needed a rest yesterday. If we worry about injuries in a game then perhaps we should stop training,because players are just as likely to get injured,and do get injured more often they do in a game.
If we get relegated this year it will be because we have not played our strongest side in every game.Change one or two players to give them a rest ,but not six ,seven or eight like we have this year. | |
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| What has happened to football? on 16:49 - Feb 17 with 2298 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| What has happened to football? on 14:37 - Feb 17 by the_oracle |
I've been asking myself the same question for some time.
Posts on putting out a weakened side for the cup game against Everton (and Bolton a few years back) seem to have split the posters on this message board.
Many seem to have bought into the idea that premier league survival is the be all and end all. Survival in the premier league is used to the detriment of the cup competitions. Put out a weakened side to preserve our status in the top division. Others talk about using PL money for building for the future, but does anyone really think we can realistically challenge Man U City, Chelsea etc in the long term?
Does the club exist for the fans or does the club exist solely to use the PL money provide income for players, staff and board? Is it right that the team is merely there for survival, and is it enough for the supporters to watch Chelsea Arsenal Man City etc each week to forgo success?
Why does the fan go? Is it for success? If so then realistically the FA cup and League cup are the two opportunities for success, as winning the league is not a viable option. If the club is interested in success then shouldn’t the side put out by the manager be the one that has the highest chance of winning? Fans eat up success, but without success will the fan keep going back to watch a club whose only ambition is to stay up?
Some call me a romantic in that I dream of my team winning things. Clubs are not remembered for finishing 15 16 or 17 in the premiership .We all know people in Swansea who have supported Man U Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool etc because they like success. How many locals support teams like Notts County or Carlisle? The reason for support is success!
Those of us old enough will remember Swindon (at the Vetch it was a terribly wet day and I think a 1-1 draw with Grimsby and I remember that because of the cup shock!) and Don Rodgers beating Arsenal in the league cup, Coventry Wimbledon and more recently Wigan winning the fa cup. If I say 1927 we all know what that means .How many remember a 0-0 draw on a wet Tuesday at any ground mid-season? Will we be remembering this week’s 1-1 at Stoke in 30 years’ time or the win over Man U in the third round? We all remember cup wins over West Ham, Sheffield, the two legs against Chelsea and so on.
Birmingham fans after the league cup win a few years ago said “A day, like no other in the club’s history, to treasure.” The websites say they would not have swapped the cup win for survival. The same applies to many Wigan fans after last season’s win.
Other days to remember apart from that day in 2003 include cup finals at Wembley and Cardiff, the Forest playoff semi and Wembley (both knock out games like the cups don’t forget). Most games in the collective memory are the big ones, the one offs.
So do we just want survival, the annual dog fight against relegation or do we want that moment that will live in footballs memory forever? Or is it simply enough to have a future of financial stability for the club. And who really benefits from that, the fan, or the player earning 40 k a week?
Danny Blanchflower said “that the game must be about the glory”. For fans, cup runs are a day out and the possibility of a lifetime of memories. For footballers, it does not get more iconic that to win a cup final. Folklore is made in Cups. The FA Cup is part of the fabric of English life.
I’d take a cup win anytime over 10 seasons of survival. |
So you would really be prepared for the club to lose £600-£1000 Million Pounds, with all the development, stability and improvement that that could bring, for the sake of getting Swansea's name on another piece of Silver?
Just suppose we did not win any of the other games in the FA cup leading up to the Final and at the same time went down to the Championship again, do you think we would stand a better chance of winning a Cup next year and the years after that with Championship Players or with Premiership Players?
So you asked "why do the Fans go?", isn't it also about the "Football", each game is a Success or Failure in itself, plus there is the level that the game is played at, do you prefer watching top class players? | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 16:51 - Feb 17 with 2289 views | NOTRAC |
80 per cent of income in | |
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| What has happened to football? on 16:58 - Feb 17 with 2270 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| What has happened to football? on 16:39 - Feb 17 by NOTRAC |
But was there a need for so many changes?
I'm sorry but this squad system idea that changes have to be made continually is a load of old Bollux for me.Has it helped us this year? We have had more injuries than ever.We have lost matches in the league simply because we have not played our best side.Continuity amongst players has been lost and that doesn't help us to play our best football.
Teams in the second division play eight more matches than ourselves.How many full games has Bony played this year that he needed a rest yesterday. If we worry about injuries in a game then perhaps we should stop training,because players are just as likely to get injured,and do get injured more often they do in a game.
If we get relegated this year it will be because we have not played our strongest side in every game.Change one or two players to give them a rest ,but not six ,seven or eight like we have this year. |
Yes ML kept playing our best player until he broke him, the Squad was never big enough for 3 competitions, serious injuries have a knock on effect, it means each player has to play longer and harder and it is even worse if they are having to play out of position.
We still only have 17 fit prem? players, do you really want to play the top ones in to the ground and just leave the backups to play the rest of the season?
7 games in 21 days!!! | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 19:25 - Feb 17 with 2138 views | jewsonjack |
| What has happened to football? on 14:12 - Feb 17 by gibs0n |
we play FA every year. So playing the best 11 in the Euro makes sense. |
This is what worries me about yesterday's team selection. Palace and Liverpool are the most important games coming up. If we play a strong team against Napoli and do well, we will be obliged to play a strong team in the second leg, 3 days before playing Palace. I would have played a stronger team yesterday, and the weaker one Thursday. If we win against Napoli we have at least 2 more matches, a win yesterday would have meant a maximum of 4 extra games in total for a wembley final and a maximum of 2 games for a Wembley semi final. I think GM has been muddled in his planning. | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 19:34 - Feb 17 with 2115 views | Dr_Winston |
| What has happened to football? on 14:34 - Feb 17 by Brynmill_Jack |
Yes but what baffles me is that in my mind I have no doubt we'll survive, even if we'd got to both FA and EL finals. This is either a lack of faith (not yesterday's team selection but the unwillingness to put Bony on for the last 30 when we looked like we could win) or complete over caution |
A full strength squad will survive. Lose Wilf for any great length of time (whilst Michu remains out) and that becomes less certain.
I don't envy Monk having to pick and choose what side he puts out given the hand he was left by the previous incumbent. We can't be strong everywhere, and of the three competitions he had to sacrifice the one we know we'll definitely be in next season. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| What has happened to football? on 20:29 - Feb 17 with 2000 views | Spratty |
| What has happened to football? on 19:34 - Feb 17 by Dr_Winston |
A full strength squad will survive. Lose Wilf for any great length of time (whilst Michu remains out) and that becomes less certain.
I don't envy Monk having to pick and choose what side he puts out given the hand he was left by the previous incumbent. We can't be strong everywhere, and of the three competitions he had to sacrifice the one we know we'll definitely be in next season. |
"I don't envy Monk having to pick and choose what side he puts out given the hand he was left by the previous incumbent"
I have read some absolute bollocks in my time but don't that beat it all
What ya drinking - bitter lemon? |  | | |
| What has happened to football? on 20:32 - Feb 17 with 1986 views | Dr_Winston |
| What has happened to football? on 20:29 - Feb 17 by Spratty |
"I don't envy Monk having to pick and choose what side he puts out given the hand he was left by the previous incumbent"
I have read some absolute bollocks in my time but don't that beat it all
What ya drinking - bitter lemon? |
Says the man positively spitting with rage and bitterness since Laudrup got the chop.
Get over it. Seriously. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| What has happened to football? on 20:55 - Feb 17 with 1921 views | Spratty |
| What has happened to football? on 20:32 - Feb 17 by Dr_Winston |
Says the man positively spitting with rage and bitterness since Laudrup got the chop.
Get over it. Seriously. |
One mans rage and bitterness is another's decency and support when the truth is rewritten
For better or worse ML is no longer a part of our club. Unfortunately it was not handled professionally which has reflected negatively on our club and the way it is perceived. This slagging off of a decent person who achieved so much for the club is totally classless.
It took me over 6 hours to drive to Stoke where I never stopped cheering on our boys. At the end of the game I particularly went to the corner to cheer off the team which included our new manager. If I am bitter perhaps we could do with a lot more bitter supporters.
If you don't like the truth put me on ignore. But do not I repeat do not slag off our team.
Believe me if I hit rage and bitterness you will know it. | | | |
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