| Guns on the Streets 17:32 - Nov 16 with 6504 views | exiled_dictator |
sometimes you see armed policemen.
they were clear to see during the 2012 olympics, and are around and about the embassies here in kensington.
and now they will be visible during the england/france match at wembley tomorrow.
jeremy corbyn was asked by bbc political editor laura kuenssberg whether he would be happy to order police or the military to shoot to kill if there was a similar attack on britain's streets.
corbyn said: "i'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive.
"i think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can, there are various degrees for doing things as we know.
"but the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing."
given the recent events in paris, and the threat from isis that london is a genuine and valid target for attack, would you be in favour of not only having more armed police and army on the streets, but having them visible so you can see them, as opposed to them being in the shadows?
these terrorists have been brainwashed and genuinely believe in life after a violent death; i believe in life before death. if they are happy to meet their makers, and have 72 fukking ugly hairy virgins waiting for them, then i am only too happy to see them off on their way with a bullet to the head or other vital organ.
i am reluctant to have a serious shoot out on the streets of london, but if the police are there to defend us, and we are not allowed to legally arm ourselves, then trained officers should not hesitate to pull the trigger.
i realise that some people will find this attitude absolutely abhorrent, and genuinely believe that dialogue is the way forward, but these cancerous shits are already infesting europe, poisoning our peaceful and tolerant way of life. they want nothing more that confrontation, to instil fear into the local communities, and push forward with their agenda of islamifying europe under one caliphate and sharia law.
it is clear to me that this open arms policy is being taken advantage of by them, and if policies towards them don't change, then things will only get more dangerous for all law obiding people just looking to live a peaceful life.
the restaurant came under 'attack' from drunken group of about 10 males on saturday night, clearly upset by the events in paris. maybe they were just looking for a cheap and easy target, and saw a muslim owned establishment as that objective. it is sad, but i can sort of understand their frustration.
and i reiterate again, the vast majority of muslims in the uk want nothing to do with these murderous bastards, who deserve nothing less than hell. we do educate our children to be tolerant and follow a proper path in life. we do look out to members of our communities who might be a risk and weak towards these ideological temptations, and we do have open dialogue with the police and other security forces. just because you don't see it does not mean that it does not happen. but there are always week members of a flock that need help. in all communities in society.
we pray for peace, but have to prepare for all scenarios.
you will understand that i need to keep a low profile during these challenging times for us all, but do not judge a whole community or religion based on the actions of a very small minority.
may the coming days and weeks be filled with peace and more joyful times leading upto the christmas festivities. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 17:43 - Nov 16 with 2751 views | RBlock |
Right, I'll give it until 19:30-20:00 before this thread has to be deleted. Sweepstake anyone? |  | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 17:44 - Nov 16 with 2747 views | RBlock |
No slight on you Exiled. Just the way these threads tend to go. | | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 17:46 - Nov 16 with 2739 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Let's not ignore the 'where you can' part of Corbyn's words, because some will use his statement as a baton to clump him with.
I think the current system works great.
All the assault weapons used in Paris came over an unchecked border in private vehicles. We have no unchecked borders on the mainland UK. Everything must come by ferry, plane, or train and anyone who has travelled here this way knows sneaking massive assault weapons would be stupid. Not impossible mind, but risky at least.
The only unchecked land borders in Northern Ireland is itself bordering with a state that has no other unchecked borders. The IRA had to smuggle theirs in through Libya and other places by commercial ships and since then intelligence is 1000% more effective at stopping these.
Every terrorist attack in the history of mainland UK would not have been prevented by extra armed police.
Sorry to hear about the grief you got. Can you PM your restaurant address so I might pop in one day. [Post edited 16 Nov 2015 18:15]
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| Guns on the Streets on 18:10 - Nov 16 with 2661 views | londonscottish |
Hi ED, good to hear your voice and sorry to hear about your restaurant getting targeted.
To answer your core question; yes please, guns on show for now.
Corbyn seems to be tying himself in knots with his need to appear to be tolerant to all. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 18:10 - Nov 16 with 2661 views | robith |
| Guns on the Streets on 17:46 - Nov 16 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Let's not ignore the 'where you can' part of Corbyn's words, because some will use his statement as a baton to clump him with.
I think the current system works great.
All the assault weapons used in Paris came over an unchecked border in private vehicles. We have no unchecked borders on the mainland UK. Everything must come by ferry, plane, or train and anyone who has travelled here this way knows sneaking massive assault weapons would be stupid. Not impossible mind, but risky at least.
The only unchecked land borders in Northern Ireland is itself bordering with a state that has no other unchecked borders. The IRA had to smuggle theirs in through Libya and other places by commercial ships and since then intelligence is 1000% more effective at stopping these.
Every terrorist attack in the history of mainland UK would not have been prevented by extra armed police.
Sorry to hear about the grief you got. Can you PM your restaurant address so I might pop in one day. [Post edited 16 Nov 2015 18:15]
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France has 3 arms of its police; one of them, the Gendarmes are basically paramilitaries, rolling round Paris armed to the teeth. In the brief time I spent in Kenya it felt like every police man I met had an automatic weapon. Yet they were powerless to stop the relatively similar attacks, because once they've begun they're very difficult to stop.
Further more, armed police requires highly skilled training as well as a very specific temperament. By rolling out huge swathes of armed police the likelihood is that you are creating an environment for lots of people to be shot by mistake.
Intelligence is the only way to really prevent it; something which *touches wood* Britain is pretty good at due to its history with the IRA.
Furthermore on a conceptual point, if we live in a place where people with guns oversee our every move then what the hell are we even struggling for? I thought this was Britain, of liberty and democracy. Our liberal freedom is why we bother to fight and why we endure. Are we just going to chuck that all away because we feel unsafe? One guns are on our streets, they'll be very hard to get back off of them. To prevent Friday's events we'd need guards every football game, low ranking indie gig and restaurant in the country |  | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 18:14 - Nov 16 with 2644 views | DWQPR |
Armed police would help to reduce any potential casualties in the event of a similar attack in London as we saw in Paris. Thing is you would need an armed policeman in every street corner and to me it seemed that the targets that were chosen were in side streets for such a reason. Fact is it is almost impossible to stop a terrorist attack as it is almost impossible to stop an armed robbery. If someone is intent on doing it then they will do it. We will just have to rely on the abilities of our security forces to informants to do their best.
As for the people who caused trouble at Exile's restaurant I can understand these peoples frustrations in an immediate unthought-through kind of way but not if it was pre-planned. I was in a supermarket this morning and by me was a Muslim lady using a self-scan check out and she was in her full black burka but with her face uncovered. For a minute I did genuinely feel anger towards her but stopped and thought about what I would do if she was attacked by someone else and I will say that without doubt I would have come to her defence. Strange times and strange emotions |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 18:18 - Nov 16 with 2617 views | TheBlob |
Ed,you're going to have to take bull's testicles off the menu. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 18:23 - Nov 16 with 2607 views | ted_hendrix |
There were armed policemen at Gatwick airport circa 04.00 4th November when we turned up at the bag drop.
When we flew back from Paphos airport midday Friday 13th November there were armed Cypriot police at the airport.
I don't like it if I'm honest but at the same time Its the way it is nowadays, I just get on with It, they are here to stay. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 18:25 - Nov 16 with 2599 views | baz_qpr |
| Guns on the Streets on 18:10 - Nov 16 by robith |
France has 3 arms of its police; one of them, the Gendarmes are basically paramilitaries, rolling round Paris armed to the teeth. In the brief time I spent in Kenya it felt like every police man I met had an automatic weapon. Yet they were powerless to stop the relatively similar attacks, because once they've begun they're very difficult to stop.
Further more, armed police requires highly skilled training as well as a very specific temperament. By rolling out huge swathes of armed police the likelihood is that you are creating an environment for lots of people to be shot by mistake.
Intelligence is the only way to really prevent it; something which *touches wood* Britain is pretty good at due to its history with the IRA.
Furthermore on a conceptual point, if we live in a place where people with guns oversee our every move then what the hell are we even struggling for? I thought this was Britain, of liberty and democracy. Our liberal freedom is why we bother to fight and why we endure. Are we just going to chuck that all away because we feel unsafe? One guns are on our streets, they'll be very hard to get back off of them. To prevent Friday's events we'd need guards every football game, low ranking indie gig and restaurant in the country |
I think we have it bang on as it is which is why shootings are so rare in this country
In the last 10 years only Lee Rigby has been killed by a terrorist act in this country. 2 People a year get killed by lightening
About 10 people a year die from insect bites and 10 from dog or other animal attacks
50 or so from falling out of bed
500 from falling down stairs
2000 or so from travel accidents
515 murders
UK population 64.1 Million
Don't give in to fear, there is really very little to be scared of in the real world away from the microscope of the media which of course only reports the worse and best in life. |  | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 18:47 - Nov 16 with 2545 views | Dorse |
Based on the fact that you can never find a policeman when you want one, I'd arm the traffic wardens. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 18:54 - Nov 16 with 2521 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Guns on the Streets on 18:25 - Nov 16 by baz_qpr |
I think we have it bang on as it is which is why shootings are so rare in this country
In the last 10 years only Lee Rigby has been killed by a terrorist act in this country. 2 People a year get killed by lightening
About 10 people a year die from insect bites and 10 from dog or other animal attacks
50 or so from falling out of bed
500 from falling down stairs
2000 or so from travel accidents
515 murders
UK population 64.1 Million
Don't give in to fear, there is really very little to be scared of in the real world away from the microscope of the media which of course only reports the worse and best in life. |
Amen my brother. | | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 19:13 - Nov 16 with 2450 views | HollowayRanger |
ANY UK PASSPORT holder who goes to Syria afganastan apart from those veted such as aid workers should have their passports revoked
that would be a good start for me
as for armed police why not more armed police the quicker they can react to an attack
what are the police meant to do taser /pepper spray these nutters
however the police must not draw their guns unless their or civilian lives are in real danger and can not be above the law themselves |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 19:30 - Nov 16 with 2413 views | exiled_dictator |
| Guns on the Streets on 18:18 - Nov 16 by TheBlob |
Ed,you're going to have to take bull's testicles off the menu. |
not as long as one person will challenge another into trying .....
plus there is an almost unlimited supply.
how d
shall i serve yours? | |
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| Guns on the Streets on 19:30 - Nov 16 with 2410 views | Lblock |
I think ARV's need to be increased - not just for terror issues but general gang bangers in London.
I fail to see what the hell Dave and his cronies think they are achieving by making any cuts to the Old Bill -- the reverse should be happening in these ever increasingly troubled times.
As for armed police would not have been able to stop any terrorist events on mainland UK I disagree.
The lunatic at the funerals in Norn Ireland could've been taken out after first or second grenade; those two coppers hijacked in their car over there might've been saved if they'd had sufficient weapons and the Glasgow Airport attack was ended by force. The armed OB have a huge and increasing place in modern day UK |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 19:50 - Nov 16 with 2354 views | Pablo_Hoopsta |
Very sorry to hear about your restaurant, the guys that did that are scum - a racist attack in response to a racist attack is just as bad in my books and if they get caught they should have the book thrown at them (and hopefully they'll share a cell with some ISIS types and they can kill each other). |  | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 21:23 - Nov 16 with 2220 views | PunteR |
Just look at America. Guns doesn't help them.
Its a no for me. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 21:26 - Nov 16 with 2207 views | HollowayRanger |
| Guns on the Streets on 21:23 - Nov 16 by PunteR |
Just look at America. Guns doesn't help them.
Its a no for me. |
slightly different
there anyone can own a gun and everyone seems to
here we're trying to arm the police so can take on terrorists
not arm everyone else | |
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| Guns on the Streets on 21:34 - Nov 16 with 2184 views | PunteR |
| Guns on the Streets on 21:26 - Nov 16 by HollowayRanger |
slightly different
there anyone can own a gun and everyone seems to
here we're trying to arm the police so can take on terrorists
not arm everyone else |
How's a copper supposed to take on a terrorist with a gun then? Half of them don't know their arse from their elbow . | |
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| Guns on the Streets on 21:34 - Nov 16 with 2181 views | Deano19766 |
Can I ask one question, and it's a genuine one. Why are the majority of these attacks all over the world linked to Islam as opposed to any other group? It simply cannot be a coincidence. I am no expert on Islam of course, but I can only question what I see in front of me. And I see that Islam must clearly has some serious flaw (more so than other religions, which are all bullsh!t as well I must add but each to their own) that causes all these people to do as they do, unless somebody can genuinely explain different?
If Islam was a football club whose fans were rioting every weekend and killing people the club would be shut down. Following a football club is akin to a belief. Why should religion be treated any differently? Sorry a bit of a crap analogy, but the only one I could think of quickly off the top of my head.
With regards guns, probably a bad idea to arm all coppers [Post edited 16 Nov 2015 21:42]
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| Guns on the Streets on 21:41 - Nov 16 with 2156 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Guns on the Streets on 21:34 - Nov 16 by Deano19766 |
Can I ask one question, and it's a genuine one. Why are the majority of these attacks all over the world linked to Islam as opposed to any other group? It simply cannot be a coincidence. I am no expert on Islam of course, but I can only question what I see in front of me. And I see that Islam must clearly has some serious flaw (more so than other religions, which are all bullsh!t as well I must add but each to their own) that causes all these people to do as they do, unless somebody can genuinely explain different?
If Islam was a football club whose fans were rioting every weekend and killing people the club would be shut down. Following a football club is akin to a belief. Why should religion be treated any differently? Sorry a bit of a crap analogy, but the only one I could think of quickly off the top of my head.
With regards guns, probably a bad idea to arm all coppers [Post edited 16 Nov 2015 21:42]
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It's not Islam though is it? In the same way it's not QPR when a Everton fan gets stabbed.
But yeah, it's all flawed. [Post edited 16 Nov 2015 21:42]
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| Guns on the Streets on 21:45 - Nov 16 with 2135 views | Deano19766 |
| Guns on the Streets on 21:41 - Nov 16 by BazzaInTheLoft |
It's not Islam though is it? In the same way it's not QPR when a Everton fan gets stabbed.
But yeah, it's all flawed. [Post edited 16 Nov 2015 21:42]
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Yes when it happens the odd time. But if a QPR fan stabbed a supporter of another team every week, or QPR fans (plural) stabbed supporters (plural) of other clubs every week, what would be the case then? Still not QPR? I doubt many other people not associated with QPR would see it that way in that scenario, and would demand the club be shut (and rightly so). Why should religion be an exception?
And I would love a genuine explanation as to why all these nutters are attached to Islam, so I can understand why it is not Islams fault as so many claim. The only conclusion I can draw at the moment, based upon the evidence, is that it is Islams fault. For the avoidance of doubt, if it were Christians, Jews or any other nonsense faith I would reach the same conclusion. [Post edited 16 Nov 2015 21:58]
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| Guns on the Streets on 21:50 - Nov 16 with 2118 views | Aitch |
IMO if our borders were secure it would greatly reduce the need to have the armed police on the streets. Prevention being better than cure and all that.
Having said that, I would actually feel happier knowing security forces are nearby and capable of protecting my family should they get caught up in a Paris type situation. |  |
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| Guns on the Streets on 21:56 - Nov 16 with 2100 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Guns on the Streets on 18:25 - Nov 16 by baz_qpr |
I think we have it bang on as it is which is why shootings are so rare in this country
In the last 10 years only Lee Rigby has been killed by a terrorist act in this country. 2 People a year get killed by lightening
About 10 people a year die from insect bites and 10 from dog or other animal attacks
50 or so from falling out of bed
500 from falling down stairs
2000 or so from travel accidents
515 murders
UK population 64.1 Million
Don't give in to fear, there is really very little to be scared of in the real world away from the microscope of the media which of course only reports the worse and best in life. |
Good post. Meanwhile, in the US, where the police are routinely armed, they've killed 1,000 of their own people so far this year.
As Ted says, armed police are a fact of life now and so be it. But I'm much happier with our approach, of a small number of well-trained firearms officers rather than loads of guys tooled-up and no real idea what they're doing. There were armed police at Mumbai station and an armed policeman at the Charlie Hebdo office. Giving a policeman - who may be perfectly good at ordinary police work - a revolver doesn't turn him into an SAS trooper. | | | |
| Guns on the Streets on 21:57 - Nov 16 with 1433 views | johncharles |
Much more armed police in Paris than in London. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Guns on the Streets on 21:59 - Nov 16 with 1426 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Guns on the Streets on 21:45 - Nov 16 by Deano19766 |
Yes when it happens the odd time. But if a QPR fan stabbed a supporter of another team every week, or QPR fans (plural) stabbed supporters (plural) of other clubs every week, what would be the case then? Still not QPR? I doubt many other people not associated with QPR would see it that way in that scenario, and would demand the club be shut (and rightly so). Why should religion be an exception?
And I would love a genuine explanation as to why all these nutters are attached to Islam, so I can understand why it is not Islams fault as so many claim. The only conclusion I can draw at the moment, based upon the evidence, is that it is Islams fault. For the avoidance of doubt, if it were Christians, Jews or any other nonsense faith I would reach the same conclusion. [Post edited 16 Nov 2015 21:58]
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I agree that people wouldn't see QPR that way and understandably. But would it be fair to you and me and the normal people if they closed QPR down? | | | |
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